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41
These rates are only valid if you work for yourself.
If you work for someone, you will get peanuts that are similar to IT peanuts or less.
You know how it is.
And you have to do marketing, advertising, etc. My impression is that these rates are not constant or every day type rates.

The only difference is that in this field, it seems easier to enter the field than in IT.

I am going to take a wild guess that most electricians are not self-employed and work for someone. And that their rates cap at 30-35/hour - maybe more in some anomaly like NYC.

They work for a firm that issues them paychecks. But this is further complicated by the fact that the IRS considers them all independent contractors as it does auto mechanics and nurses.
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FTE, Job and Career Discussion / Re: IBM Now Has More Employees in India Than in the U.S.
« Last post by unix on October 02, 2017, 08:03:43 AM »
Pretty much
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Electrical work is easy compared to plumbing, a lot of carpentry, etc. You don't have to worry about finishes or appearance, usually, except for exposed fixtures. Safety is high as long as you don't do something dumbassed and you keep circuits switched off. Yeah, the rates for electricians boggles my mind.
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What I find interesting is that there is a complete disconnect between what the media says the programming field is versus what its really like. They are selling the streets are paved with gold but after people go to school they discover its not. I know tons of young people who went to school and than bailed out of it after spending a long time unemployed.

Exactly. That's what I meant. There's a common assumption that programming creates career momentum and is well respected. Nothing is farther from the truth.

Saying you're a programmer in most business environments is about as powerful as saying that you know how to handle a hacksaw or a wrench.
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My friend recently bought a house and needed to have some electrical work done. He got 3 estimates from licensed electricians. Here is what he told me he had done roughly from memory:

2 ceiling fans + switches
3 new outside outlets
2 outside outlets repaired
7 recessed lights  + 3 pendants + 2 dimmers in kitchen
2 pairs of flood lights in the back.

He didnt get a single quote that was less than 5K. All the electricians told him that this is just a quote but the actual bill will be less as this is just time and materials. He picked a guy and the guy came with his partner - took 2 days to do it and they work from 7:30am to 2pm. Than they are out of there.

Total bill for the time and materials was $4000. My friend figures the cost of materials was probably close to $800. Remember the work also needs new wire and junction boxes. Regardless you can do the math - $3200 for 2 guys for 2 days. $1600 each so about $800/day for your time BEFORE TAXES. Figure they get hit at 30% for taxes as they are probably LLCs. So they are probably netting $1150 which works out to $575/day.

Thats pretty good money as most IT people cannot consistently pull that kind of $$ today due to the H1B. On top of this there are significant barriers to entry. Here in the PRNJ (People's Republic of NJ) there is a ton of licensing bullshit + liability insurance + disability insurance. Also I am betting that a lot of them do quite a bit of work n cash.

Sure there are lots of unlicensed ones around but you have to be brave to trust one with your house especially when they could accidentally burn it down.

One thing they did tell me is if the owner drives them crazy they leave. By the time they are packing their tools they are usually begging them to come back.
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Of course its about driving down wages. Even though the H1B have completely hammered the field, you can never have enough fresh young meat for corporations to exploit. They have been selling the streets are paved with gold for programming since the 80s. And thats what this teaching kids to code thing is about.

Its not new but here is the reality - the job market for programmers today is much tougher than it was in the 80s. The market is really saturated because of the H1B. There is no shortage of anyone that does anything now. 

What I find interesting is that there is a complete disconnect between what the media says the programming field is versus what its really like. They are selling the streets are paved with gold but after people go to school they discover its not. I know tons of young people who went to school and than bailed out of it after spending a long time unemployed.

Frankly you are better off going to college and than going to learn a trade like plumbing or electrical. There is signficant barriers to entry due to the licensing - that is if you want a licensed plumber or electrician.
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I don't expect to see that on CNN anytime soon

If anything CNN will say how great it is and that Americans are incompetent.
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It should really come with it by default.


I cannot believe how tons of sensitive emails are flying around in the open. There are 10,000 and 1 things you want to encrypt.  This should be a default, built-in option in both yahoo, gulagmail and all the other apps.

The reason why it's not has already been answered. For that would defeat data mining.

So gulag and others are not there for you, you are there for them to be mined.

Agreed. No free email is every going to provide it because as it was said earlier - you arent the customer, you are the product. Customers get customer support, products get jack.
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Discussions - Public / Re: The two best articles I've seen on the Equifax Hack
« Last post by ilconsiglliere on October 02, 2017, 03:23:51 AM »
Wow. What makes this scary is that employees are never told that their information is going to Equifax like this.

You can pull your own report, takes 5 minutes by following the link. The worst thing is employees have no idea that your employer is providing Equifax this info. As a matter of fact my last bunch of employers gave it to them including my current consulting body shop.
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I agree that teaching kids, macaques, baboons, and household pets to code is entirely about lowering labor costs. I'm looking into a Java school for one of our cats. :P

Seriously - I believe that society and well as the government and policy-makers completely misunderstand programming and coding. Everyone outside this field infers huge power and career upsides with programming skills.

Programming has seriously dumbed-down since the 1980s. The skill level and the sheer work required to develop something useful for commercial purposes is sharply less today than it was in 1985 or 1995. Most common platforms and languages and tools have all become accessible to beginners.

The point is - even for someone who made a career out of software development earlier than the 2000s, there's just not that much high level work to be done.
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