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So Dvorak and Linus Torvalds both believe that the direction of the UI in Linux is wrongheaded, but... things just get worse and worse. Not even big names with a beef pull any influence.

I admire the work ethic of geeks but they never, ever have common sense or a sense of things being in proportion. Moar code and more features always better.

Geeks have to have revenue and business needs to whack them down into compliance with what users really need.

I like programming as a task but programmers are by and large stupid asses with no common sense.

I agree with what you wrote above. There is no common sense, its all about their egos. Why does Linux have so many Window managers? I don't give a crap, I want it to work and I want it to be fast. Thats it.

Software keeps getting more and more bloated and less and less intuitive. You have to wonder what these idiots are thinking about.

This is a pet peeve of mine but witness the whole flat interface shit that is the big thing now. There are tons and tons of annoying shit they have done. Here is partial list:

-Transparent windows. This SUCKS. Windows has it, Mac has it and Linux has it. Who thought it would be a great idea to have semi-transparent windows so the other windows can be seen through it. Do they have any idea how hard it makes it to read text?

-Thin fonts that are similar in color to the background. This one kills me - they put thin dark gray fonts on a medium gray background. Its very hard to see.

-Buttons that don't look like buttons any longer. Now they just have text labels and you are supposed to guess this is a button. How the hell am I supposed to know this is a button? WHAT WERE THEY THINKING ABOUT?

-The stupid hamburger symbol that was started by Google and spread everywhere. Instead of having a menu at the top - oh no, now I have to click on the stupid hamburger and realize that all the settings are buried in there. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID.

-Flat blocky shapes with no gradients. Again they don't look like buttons how am I supposed to know they are buttons?

-Stick figure icons that mean NOTHING. Windows 10 is the most guilty of this of all. Its full of these icons that look like they were done by a 7 year old. And they mean NOTHING. How I am supposed to know that icon means settings, people or whatever?

There is nothing intuitive about anything they have done. Even the vaunted OS X has fell victim to it because of that idiot Jony Ives. There is stuff in OS X now that makes you think, what? Hate to burst everyone's bubble but the skeuomorphic stuff was easier and more intuitive to use.

Now I am reading that Ubuntu is going back to using Gnome instead of its own GUI. Oh yay for everyone. Gnome IMO sucks the big one. You want to talk about not intuitive, here you go - Gnome. Gnome takes everyone user interface paradigm that there ever was and throws it out the window.
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Discussions - Public / Re: Why Linux sucks and will never compete with Windows or OSX
« Last post by The Gorn on February 17, 2018, 12:52:40 PM »
So Dvorak and Linus Torvalds both believe that the direction of the UI in Linux is wrongheaded, but... things just get worse and worse. Not even big names with a beef pull any influence.

I admire the work ethic of geeks but they never, ever have common sense or a sense of things being in proportion. Moar code and more features always better.

Geeks have to have revenue and business needs to whack them down into compliance with what users really need.

I like programming as a task but programmers are by and large stupid asses with no common sense.
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Discussions - Public / Re: Ongoing and Never Ending Travails of Linux as a Desktop
« Last post by The Gorn on February 17, 2018, 07:59:13 AM »
^ Spot on, ilconsigliere.

Do this:

Open a shell and enter this command:

wmctrl -m

Post here what it reports.  That'll give the window manager in use.

My system reports in the first two lines (I don't care about your PID):

Quote
Name: Xfwm4
Class: xfwm4

Linux is an ideal platform for Russian-funded patriotic shitposting.
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http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2016/02/25/why-linux-sucks-and-will-never-compete-with-windows-or-osx/

This quote about sums it up:

"Linux also, like the Mac is more of a religion where Linux followers praise new features that actually make the user experience worse. The community behaves more like a cult and seems completely disconnected from the reality of making something productive.

Linux is free and is actually not even worth what you pay for it. That’s why people actually are willing to pay for something else. If Linux paid you to take it it wouldn’t be any more popular than it is now."

These idiots need to standardize one one GUI, one way to install software and be done with it. Nobody needs 30 versions of something that you have to figure out how to make it work.

This would be equivalent of a company that makes socket tools having different ways of attaching the sockets for no reason other than vanity.
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Wow, thats a shit ton of irritations. I wonder if its because of XFCE? I have Ubuntu and have none of this and I use it a lot. I don't have these problems, I have other stuff ;) .

Granted about the only things I really do at home is play on the web (trolling, starting fights, etc.... LOL) - watching videos on how to do things (no porn), email and the occasional coding of something I need.

What brand of hardware are you running this on? I am wondering if some of this is related to the generic drivers.

I have my Ubuntu running on an HP. Its been ok but I have thought about getting a new laptop as I would like a bigger touchpad. I have read repeatedly that the gold standard for Linux hardware is Thinkpads. I have a Thinkpad for work and it just works.

Linux on the whole is very stable however the GUI is eh. As you said data operations blow Windows away and its fast but the GUI can use cleaning. The biggest irritation with Linux is the dorks keep reinventing the wheel. They seem to get into these pissing wars about ABC and the next thing you know they are forking the code and creating a new version of whatever is. I have seen them doing this over and over and over.

There are I don't know how many GUI variants and a lot of them are absolute crap. None are as good as Windows 7, however Windows 10 is absolute shit. I use a Mac a lot and am used to it but there is a substantial difference between the Mac gui and Windows.

My thing is I just want it to work, I can adjust to whatever it is but don't make me mess with it just to use it.
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Discussions - Public / Re: Ongoing and Never Ending Travails of Linux as a Desktop
« Last post by The Gorn on February 16, 2018, 06:24:08 PM »
I started to enumerate all of the mostly little but consistent irritations that Linux foists on me. And these posts cover most of the misbehaviors I've found.

Hey, I said some good things, too. :P

To bottom line my misanthropic rant above:

The writers of FOSS and also "really serious" IT people who support this stuff commercially for a living seem to have big blind spots about the day to day usability.

I'll give you a concrete example which I suspect won't make any sense to you, or perhaps it will:

I am typing a sentence. The cursor is at the end of the line. I want to select the line and cut it and paste it somewhere else.

My fingers are trained to: hold down the CONTROL key and press the KEYPAD HOME key simultaneously. The CTRL key puts the cursor movement into "select" mode. The HOME key moves the "selecting" cursor to the start of the line. The same as holding down the mouse and sweeping across the sentence.

I've been doing this for 20+ years. It is a shortcut, MUCH faster than any alternative key or mouse sequence for that action, and I do that and similar edits a lot.

By default when I do this "key chord" in Mint, it types a digit 7 even when numlock is off. IT SCREWS ME THE F&(& UP.

A naive techie would say "oh golly gee why does that matter? Do it a different way. I don't care about writing. Hah hah."

It's the typing equivalent to me of saying "ok, now you will try to run wearing slippers, across a pool of Crisco oil on a basketball court."

Tourette's until I figured out how to force Linux to do this the right way.  It honestly took me 3 hours to find how to make that work in Linux.

The writers of FOSS don't seem to take heavy commercial users seriously at the UI end. Features aren't stable, they aren't customized consistently in one place, and Linux only makes a deceptively superficial attempt to work like Windows.

It's small scale sloppiness, the micro version of why (for example) there will never be serious and usable financial software produced by FOSS heads.

"After all, you could have a front panel flipping switches" the geeks who have the power to make this right would say.
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Discussions - Public / Re: Ongoing and Never Ending Travails of Linux as a Desktop
« Last post by benali72 on February 16, 2018, 05:54:46 PM »
I'm sorry you're having such a bad time, Gorn. I wish I could help, but I think I'd have to be there in person to do that. Whatever you decide to do, I hope it gets better.
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Discussions - Public / Chromium, again - duped bookmark menus!
« Last post by The Gorn on February 16, 2018, 09:31:32 AM »
Just now I found that Chromium decided to create duplicates of every single one of my bookmarks. I have bookmark folders along the menu labeled things like "My Stuff", "Links", "Search". Each one had an additional copy. So two "My Stuff" menus, etc.

At least they are side by side with the originals (no idea which one is "original") to make deleting a bit easier.

I assume it's a Linux thing.

The fun never ends with this amateurish shitware.
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Discussions - Public / The !@^(!@ damned KEYRING
« Last post by The Gorn on February 16, 2018, 08:57:04 AM »
Every time I launch Chromium in Linux (it's much faster than Firefox in Linux) I get a modal nag box that takes over THE ENTIRE DESKTOP from a keyring manager which wants my login password.

I've gone to the "Passwords and Keys" applet innumerable times and reset the password to none (my PC is on the home internet connection behind a firewall so it's ok.)

That's supposed to solve this problem by removing the password from the keyring.

Then the setting does not take. At some future date it prompts me for the keyring password again.
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If I have used the same session of Windows in a Virtualbox VM a few times - meaning once I started it, I close the session for now by saving rather than shutting down Windows in the guest -

Certain integration settings are lost, even though they appear in the settings dialog for that VM,

Bi-directional copy and paste is lost. I RELY ON THAT. I may have a browser session in Linux (which I treat as a primary desktop) and I copy (say) a confirmation code from a banking website. I want to then paste that into Quickbooks inside the VM. NOPE. What gets pasted in the Windows VM is the trash in the local VM's clipboard. NOT the clipboard from the Linux desktop.

I wind up creating a temp file in the shared files in Linux, saving the text, and reading it in the VM and copying and pasting that using Notepad.

To get bidirectional clipboards working again I have to shut down the Windows VM (time consuming) and reboot the guest.

Not a serious functional limitation but clearly the result of poor testing and bugs.
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