Cargo Cult Programming - Do Younger Developers Completely Suck Today?

[The Gorn]

Interesting post:

http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/122477/how-can-i-deal-with-the-cargo-cult-programming-attitude

I have some computer science students in a compulsory introductory programming course who see a programming language as a set of magic spells, which must be cast in order to achieve some effect (instead of seeing it as a flexible medium for expressing their idea of solution).

They tend to copy-paste code from previous, similar-looking assignments without considering the essence of the problem.

Are there some exercises or analogies to make these students more confident that they can, and should, understand the structure and meaning of each piece of code they write?

So this is the genre of programmers that startups and high flying technology companies eagerly seek.

I am wondering if this is normal. When I started to program, my instinct was to grok every moving part in absolute fullness.

Did people get stupid all of a sudden? Not one person who reasons as these alleged students do should even be in a software engineering program, but apparently someone believes that they are candidates.

[Richardk]

I need to read the story but how do these 'Harry Potter' programmers get through an interview where they want you to know obscure commands and every option that's available?

I truly believe that unless programmers organize and get recognition for their degrees and profession, this nonsense will continue.

Just because you sit in front of a computer, does not make you a programmer.

[The Gorn]

I need to read the story but how do these 'Harry Potter' programmers get through an interview where they want you to know obscure commands and every option that's available?

Supremely talented young developers fresh out of the university are given a pass on this useless rigor, because they are great and everyone knows it. You should too.

The online tests and accusational technical screenings are strictly for old losers who should not be hired.

[The Gorn]

The students being described sound like the very worst of the meal ticket category.

I initially got into software because I thought it was fascinating in all respects. Interest in the subject matter should be a minimal qualification for participating in CS or SW engineering programs - the work is too hard to have more j*rkoffs clutter up the field.

The same goes for virtually any academic field, really.

[I D Shukhov]

Actually, they're kind of preparing themselves for industry work, where there is a lot of copying of code to get something done on schedule.  It sucks, and the code may get refactored by somebody who gets sick of looking at it (or maintaining it).

In this particular situation they may not care about the problem, either because they really don't care (e.g. it's a compulsory course and they aren't Comp. Sci. majors), or they're under pressure and don't have the time to care.  Maybe there are other explanations.  The teacher should ask them why they don't care.

If they become industrial programmers and have to maintain some poorly-written code they may start caring.  Heck, they may even invent something ingenious!

[The Gorn]

Actually, they're kind of preparing themselves for industry work, where there is a lot of copying of code to get something done on schedule.  It sucks, and the code may get refactored by somebody who gets sick of looking at it (or maintaining it).

In this particular situation they may not care about the problem, either because they really don't care (e.g. it's a compulsory course and they aren't Comp. Sci. majors),...

Actually, the original question said "I have some computer science students in a compulsory introductory programming course".

What you said is inadvertently the case - most programmers aren't  really allowed to build anything original.

[TechTalk]

I initially got into software because I thought it was fascinating in all respects.

I think we all got into computer programming because of a fascination with computers and/or the feeling of control that it allowed us to have.  I lost my lust for computer technology and programming when I realized that programming is probably the best paying long-term temporary field/job on the planet.  Unless I can use it to my advantage in some manner I just don't care about programming or computer technology anymore.

Interest in the subject matter should be a minimal qualification for participating in CS or SW engineering programs - the work is too hard to have more j*rkoffs clutter up the field. The same goes for virtually any academic field, really.

Richardk wrote: Just because you sit in front of a computer, does not make you a programmer.

Hmmm... As far as I know anybody can call themselves a programmer and that has led to the overabundance of of people willing to try and become one. 

[Origisaurus]

Anybody can teach coding, and most can learn it.  Coding is not software development.

Software development is what you used to learn in the first two years on the job.*  Employers looked on this "apprenticeship" as a long-term investment.  These days, employers want you to "hit the ground running", with zero learning curve, because they are planning to lay off the entire crew when the project is delivered in less than two years.  That, for me at least, explains the dearth of decent software coming to market these days.

* The first two years are the intro.  The next 30 or 40 years are the graduate-level course.


Someone mentioned copy-and-paste programming.  It goes back to repro-ing a deck of cards and jiggering that until a program happened.  I'd say that, in the wild, the ratio of original to cloned code is one to a million.  Heck, even I have "skeleton" code for VB, COBOL and others I have used extensively.

[Richardk]

Richardk wrote: Just because you sit in front of a computer, does not make you a programmer.

Hmmm... As far as I know anybody can call themselves a programmer and that has led to the overabundance of of people willing to try and become one.

And there are loads of jobs out there! Just look at the TV commercials; "You too can become a game programmer or systems analyst in only 2 years at our fine school."

Of course the fine print reads that your odds of landing such a job are one in a million. Everyone else gets a 'techie job' where you're paid something above minimum wage.

[Origisaurus]

I think we all got into computer programming because of a fascination with computers ...

As usual, I'm the outlier.  I got into programming almost by accident.  I was about to follow my dream of becoming a tweedy Math professor and wondering how I could afford 2 to 5 years of grad school (a combination of driving cab and Army Reserve pay with a full-time class load gets it but just barely) when I bumped into a former classmate who told me his employer, a small computer manufacturer, would hire anyone with a Math degree, right away.  The rest, as they say, is history

I lost my lust for computer technology and programming when I realized that programming is probably the best paying long-term temporary field/job on the planet.  Unless I can use it to my advantage in some manner I just don't care about programming or computer technology anymore.

Once one sees that the commercial aspects of one's career dominate, one tends to lose interest in the existential aspects.  And becomes a whore.