Are there any really GOOD grocery list/coupon organizer programs?

[The Gorn]

I have been doing some of our grocery shopping recently. My wife and I have expressed an interest in using coupons more effectively.  I also have been using "e-coupons" - deals that are downloaded to our frequent shopper card.

What I'm finding is that grocery shopping is extremely difficult to organize without a good system in place.

I see the main impediment to using coupons effectively as organizational:

Maintaining a list of products that we usually buy as a static list of placeholders - call this our "standard shopping list".

Allowing paper coupons to be entered easily and quickly, and relating them to the list of products in the "standard shopping list"

Allowing e-coupons to be entered easily and quickly, and relating them to the "standard shopping list" (preferably by inhaling them from the coupon web site or from emails)

Allowing the standard shopping list to be sorted for each store that we visit to reflect the order of products in the aisles in that store.

It would even be great if store ads could be downloaded to the software, and items in the ads could be scanned by the software to determine if anything in the "standard shopping list" was on sale, and THEN, relating the current deals to coupons on hand.

The latter appears to me to be where some serious value could be created in a software product. We watched "Extreme Couponing" a few weeks ago and the key there appears to be to scout product sales that match paper coupons that you have on hand. It appeared to be an enormous PITA.

I believe that we probably waste several hundred dollars a year on simply not having the time or interest in organizing this crap.

I looked around some. Is this really a gap in the market? The products I found from a Google search looked REALLY lame, simplistic, and limited.

And, it would be a natural smart phone application. But it would have to be tied back to either a server or a desktop. In my vision, something has to scan grocery store sales ads and import that data and relate it to your shopping list. I don't see a smart phone having that degree of processing power. The smart phone would be a natural for allowing the shopper to check off or search for items and for comparison shopping on the fly. It would not be so good for collecting competitive pricing information from multiple sources, etc.

So I see such a product as a combination smart phone/desktop or smart phone/web site hybrid. With a product variation that allows non smart phone owners to print their list out on paper and carry it with them.

I'm guessing that there are a bunch of stupid solutions around that each solve their own favorite 20% of the problem, but none that tie it all together as I am suggesting. I looked some also at an active couponer's forum. The applications around seem to be modeled on classical desktop approaches where you have to enter your lists manually.

What is particularly interesting to me about this problem is that there really are no "comprehensive" solutions around. The need is out there and the market seems to be huge, but the available products are fairly trivial and basic. It's a classical data-organizational challenge.

[The Original Henry]

I read something recently (sorry, can't remember what or where) that made a claim that affluent people don't bother with coupons. The common line of thinking is that this is because affluent people didn't need to use them, but the argument was the opposite: affluent people become affluent in the first place because they don't sweat the little things that complicate their lives and waste their time. The money saved from coupons simply didn't outweigh the time and energy required to deal with them.

Anyway, I wouldn't consider myself anywhere near affluent but I've found that I fall into the same boat. To me it's more important to maximize speed and efficiency at the grocery store than it is to save a few bucks. I never bother with coupons because of this, although some grocery stores have those super saver cards where the savings are automatic if you just scan the card during checkout. That's what I use because I can save a few bucks without expending any effort to do so.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this problem has largely been solved by these discount cards where they exist. For the remainder, they either enjoy the coupon dance as it exists or they are in a position where a few dollars is more important than their time. In that case they probably wouldn't (or couldn't) buy anything to change that...at least not without a coupon.

[The Gorn]

I was thinking the same thing myself. The attraction of "extreme couponing" is that you can meet many of your food and other product needs by spending extremely small amounts of money.

(The really extreme couponers go overboard and become obsessed with it as a lifestyle - they become a sort of hoarder and fill up basements, spare bedrooms and garages with hoarded products.)

To add to what you are saying, I found trying to take advantage of "e-coupons" - deal offers downloaded to my frequent shopper account - was extremely annoying. Paper coupons are the same way. Coupons, in general, are a royal pain to manage. Someone with a complex career and/or lifestyle simply isn't going to bother.

What I am hypothesizing in this thread is a software product that could cut out 80% of the grunt work and the nuisance factor by organizing and the information properly for the needs of the shopper, rather than just dumping out a list of products.

this problem has largely been solved by these discount cards where they exist.

I see frequent shopper cards as a form of personal data extortion: "allow us to database you and profile your spending habits - if you don't, prepare to pay 20-50% more for the same items." They're not a legitimate discount - they correct an inflated "penalty" price.

[Richardk]

A few quick thoughts.

Aside from the "Extreme Couponing" group who really has the time or care enough to get this organized?

Also I wonder if stores really want you to use their coupons? It's about getting you in the store and doing impulse shopping.

With that aside I agree that being organized and knowing "all the rules" really makes a difference. Things like minimum purchase amounts and limits on 'double coupon' days.

I've used those 'super saver cards' too with mixed results. When I really paid attention, the savings added up but I was surprised that many times nothing came off the tab when I purchased what I needed. Also some allow you to save only when you purchase the store brand, unless they're running a sale.

[The Original Henry]

I see frequent shopper cards as a form of personal data extortion

It absolutely is. But there is no law that says you have to fill out the application honestly. The stores where I shop think I'm someone that doesn't even exist, living at a made-up address with a made-up phone number.

Richard poked another point in my brain - most of the time people wouldn't normally buy something that they have a coupon for, so the very existence of a coupon acts on their sub-conscious to buy it because it's perceived as a good value even if they wouldn't normally buy it in the first place. The end result is a higher grocery bill even with the discount.

As to your idea for something to streamline it, I'm not sure it's even possible. All of that data would still have to be entered manually at some point, so the burden just shifts to a different point in time.  The physical coupon would still have to be handled and managed, so all you would end up with is some sort of catalog device that tells you what you have or what you should redeem soon. It doesn't really solve the root inconvenience, and it would probably just provoke you to use coupons before they expire on products that you wouldn't normally buy to begin with.

[Origisaurus]

Having been single for quite a while, I evolved my own low-tech "system".  My only computer use was to print a 3x5 card with the department names and space to write my list items.

The store ads come on Tuesday and the deals run from Wednesday through Tuesday.  This is standard in the USofA because USPS gives the lowest rate for junk mail on the slowest day of the week.  Usually I shop on Thursday, using the store ads and accumulated coupons.  Coupons come in the junk mail and the Sunday paper.

Coupons - Only very rarely will I save a coupon for a new product.  Rather, I look for coupons for the stuff I usually buy.   Clip them and keep in an envelope.  I have never found any advantage in using an "organizer".

Store ads - keep them for reference when making the shopping list.  After making the list, go through the coupons, not to see what else to buy, but to use with your listed buys.

Since I estimate that I spend much less than half an hour cumulatively during the week on making the list and clipping coupons, I can't see that I could save any time by using a snazzy computer app.  Of course a list can be optimized for the store you shop in, which will save a few steps inside the store.

As an example of how coupons and shopper cards can save you money, I once knew a woman who regularly loaded her grocery buggy with maybe $80 worth of groceries, and paid $30 after the discounts and coupons.  That's more than 60% off.

Of course, you need the discipline to shop from your list, look for bargains on the stuff you need, and avoid impulse buying.

[The Gorn]

As to your idea for something to streamline it, I'm not sure it's even possible. All of that data would still have to be entered manually at some point, so the burden just shifts to a different point in time.  The physical coupon would still have to be handled and managed, so all you would end up with is some sort of catalog device that tells you what you have or what you should redeem soon. It doesn't really solve the root inconvenience, ...

I think you're correct. However, a good tool could alleviate a few of the inconveniences by focusing on what it could automate with little human effort - the downloading and categorization of data.

For example, what if such a tool could: go to a grocery chain's web site, download the current sales circular in PDF, and could extract the items now on sale and put them in the user's personal database? And could associate the sales items with the "standard shopping list" items that the user has already set up? You'd press the button "fetch deals from Safeway" and your shopping list would be filled in with Safeway's current deals.

A lot of shopping today is computer and internet-centric. Every major chain puts their sales circulars on their sites. I think a lot of it could be automated.

However, the data is pretty dirty and I doubt that stores would provide downloads in DB friendly form for the reason that they have no incentive to make it easy to shop bargains. For instance, I can copy the text in the Kroger online ads (PDF pages) to the clipboard, and the resulting text is very messy and some items are scrambled.

It would be a hell of a lot of work to build such an application.

[The Gorn]

...
Of course, you need the discipline to shop from your list, look for bargains on the stuff you need, and avoid impulse buying.

There is a lot of practical wisdom in your approach. Thanks.

But I'm not talking to you! I'm talking to people who would gladly waste their money onbuy yet another stupid program! Just kidding...

[Richardk]

Ah, way too much work.

I just looked at two and one display's jpeg's of the weekly flyer while the other uses Flash. Neither is database friendly.

It looks like a shopping list and envelope full of coupons is the low tech way to go.

[PhilFromNY]

I thought coupon collectors worked in clubs.

[datagirl]

I've started to respond to this thread a couple of times and keep getting interrupted...

My current method is very similar to Origisaurus.  I sort my coupons by expiry date, which helps cue me to use 'em or lose 'em... but if it's something I'm not likely to buy to begin with, it never finds it's way into the stack.

As to a high tech solution, if I were to *build* one, I'd lean toward a smart phone app that used bar code reader software. 

• Scan the stuff in your cupboard to build your inventory.
• When you grab the last one off the shelf to use, scan it or manually select it for the shopping list.
• When you are in the store and see something you want to purchase you can scan it.
• You can also scan physical coupons to match those items on your list.
• The real value would be to scan an item in the store that starts an online coupon search... if found downloads a coupon code that you can use at checkout,
• ...or does the comparison shopping thing within x mile radius.

I personally don't have the technical chops to do the online piece, but the rest would be pretty straight-forward given proper time and tool set... include a smart phone, which I don't own right now.

As far as I know this does not exist at the grocery store shopping level.  All the elements do exist as individual apps, limited to product class or store/member group.  I suppose a residual income could arise from a subscription service that alerts you when something you have in your personal list goes on sale or has a worthwhile coupon offer available.  Do you reckon an app with a social networking feature would create a groupon-like vibe among users?

I'll shut up now.  I think I'm having post-dessert sugar rush, hence the stream-on-conscious prattling.
-DG

[The Gorn]

DG, you've suggested the exact angles I was thinking of.

Just to note - the geek-friendly aspects, like the bar code lookup/personal inventory, is already covered by quite a few smartphone apps. It's easy so geeks have already solved those type of problems.

The much tougher problem is what Richard alluded to - the nastiness and irregularity of the source data for things like online coupons and special ads, being a mix of PDF, Flash, and probably JPEGS and other crap. It is definitely not in the interest of the grocery chains to make this information databaseable - their interest in offering specials is to have you wandering around the store buying more crap than you would otherwise.

[Carrie Cobol]

All true.  However, I totally agree that this would be a fantastic system.  (Note, not "app", it would definitely have to be a whole system:  database+phone/tablet+interfaces to third party databases.)  Not something one or two guys could cobble up in the garage, but I do see a market for it.  I think it's ahead of the curve, get on it now and by the time the stores realize it could bring them more sales, it will be ready to sell.  You're right that right now the stores have no incentive to work with this kind of scheme because it's all about foot traffic and impulse buying for them.  I think the way to counter that would be if the software brought them measurably more sales than impulse buying.

The other issue I thought of when I read the idea description was somehow getting the items sorted into aisle order for each store.  Ideally each chain would have to number or otherwise order their products in the way most people walk through their stores - which is also against their impulse buying motivation, so not likely to happen soon.  Less ideal but workable would be to have a team of key users volunteer to create and maintain a some kind of sorted list for the stores they shop in that can be used by the whole userbase.  This would be occasionally defeated and have to be redone when the stores rearrange/remodel their layouts, as they do from time to time.

Generating a list of standard list items is easy, nearly everybody buys milk, so the list would say "milk".  You could add a feature if you want to let them choose a specific brand and/or size.  It would also be good to allow the user to de-select items from the standard list:  "My whole family is lactose intolerant so we never buy milk.  Zap it."

I can see this being implemented with SQL Server on the backend, Javascript and jquery on the front (jquery mobile rocks for iphone/ipads).  After you build enough of it to make a nice demo, maybe it could be marketed to one of the more forward-thinking stores like Wegmans or Whole Foods to encourage a partnership.  Get one on board, make it successful, and then others will want to join. (Or build their own, but that's okay too.)

[Carrie Cobol]

Also, rather than reading UPC codes, I think you guys mean QR codes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_code

This will also help encourage stores to provide sales/coupon/merchandise lists in cleaner formats so you maybe don't have to scrape PDF or JPG documents.  Well, it's one step closer than UPC codes at least.  Politics are always the problem.

[The Gorn]

Carrie, you caught the vision I have exactly. It would be a very ambitious (high resource required) undertaking with multiple components. And you stepped through my thinking. I wasn't seriously looking for an mISV opportunity but it was fun to think "what if".

Bar codes: yes, any system like this would have to work with either QR codes or bar codes. QR codes are the new big thing.

They're not just for e-stamps any more.