What to do when the Client doesn't listen?

[ldrews]

I must have missed that thread.

Dino, what are your requirements for accepting a client?

[ldrews]

While in general I agree with you and Jerry Weinburg, I do think there is one exception.

When I am trying to upgrade my role or sell extensions to my current contract, I will often offer suggestions on approaches to minor problems even though I am not being paid to do so.  I just consider it a marketing investment.

[pm4hire]

and your reporting level.

On my last gig, in PA this summer, I worked
directly for the CIO, whereas now, I'm
5 or 6 levels down the food chain.  

Another PM told me not to bother making
any suggestions b/c Big Blue does NOT want
to hear it.

Basically now, I'm a project administrartor,
not a project manager.  My job is to ensure
compliance with their process and fill out a
lot of forms.  Often the projects I do take
longer to complete the documentation than
actually doing the work.

[pm4hire]

You need to be flexible enough to work
with clients that have all sorts of different
levels of maturity and understanding when
it comes to management and technology
if you are to make a living at contracting.

[Colonel Angous]

whatever the client wants goes.  I can state my opinion, give pros and cons, tell him why I'd like to consider going a different way, but in the end, he knows his business best and signs the check.

And you better believe I document the hell out of what was considered, discussed, reviewed and eventually decided upon and why.

[JTGalt]

20% is better and let them fire themselves.

But this really applies to new customers.

I realized at one point that of the many companies I have done work for it was only a small percentage about 20 percent that accounted for all the aggravation and bad experiences. If I had just not chosen to work with that 20 percent things would have been vastly better.

Thats why I spend so much time doing extensive marketing so I can keep the luxury of turning down 20 percent of new business. You don't have to be nasty about it just explain that you do not have the time but you can get someone else for them and pass it along to them. You can always find someone who needs the work, just be upfront to your replacement why you are passing it on to them.

And also I find that if management is really bad, in 5 years you can count on there being totally new management, in that case you can deal with the new people at that time unless it is a private company and you actually have problems with the same ownership.

If you consistently drop the lower 10 percent just because they are the lower 10 percent you will  eventually get to the point that what you dropped is actually much better than what you are going to replace them with.

With existing clients I will only drop them if they give me constant problems like making me chase thru hoops trying to collect what they owe me. I also have very little tolerance for any kind of abuse. You will always be able to find people who think that when they pay money that is part of the deal to be able to abuse you. I will not do business with those kind of people.

Another one is the type that say they want "ABC" after I give them "ABC" they then complain about the work that I did because they did not get "DEF".

That's another example of letting the client's themself decide who gets on the fired list.

And that's when you know you have a viable business, when you can do that.

[David Cressey]

If the client refuses to take your advice,  the question is,  is that what you are selling to the client?

I went solo, as a database consultant,  after twenty years as a programmer, and as an instructor.  I settled in early to a model that said the primary thing of value that I was transferring to the customer was advice and know-how.  

Sometimes people hired me just to fix database corruption.  Come in,  find out what's wrong,  fix it and get out.

Sometimes people hired me to reorganize a database whose performance had become unacceptable.  In these cases they normally wanted me to transfer my knowledge to the local talent,  so that they would not have to hire "an expensive guy from out of town"  the next time.  

Nearly always,  my clients had a competent programming staff of their own.  Being a competent programmer does not necessarily mean that you are a good database jockey.  It can help you, or it can hurt you.

Every now and then,  I would run into a client whose demand was "fix it, but don't change anything."  Generally,  these were difficult clients,  although there were exceptions.

If the "fix it, but don't change anything"  edict can be translated to "repair the physical design, but leave the logical design intact"  then you can actually do what the client wants.

I'm actually annoyed when people refer to me as a "guru" or a "wizard".  Magic has nothing to do with what I used to do for a living.  It's just analysis, diagnosis and repair (or redesign).  I was annoyed whn John Masterson suggested, diaparagingly,  that I would conduct an exorcism on a system that might be demon possessed.  But I know he was only kidding.  

In general,  the Wienberg laws of consulting apply:

Law one:  "There's always a problem, no matter what the client says."

Law two:  "It's always a people problem, no matter what it looks like at first."


But the real problem is when when they hire you to be a contractor, but they really need a consultant.  It's like a lousy driver bringing a car into Jiffy lube.  An hour later, when he drives away,  his reaction is,  "this car still drives lousy".

[The Original Dinosaur]

Quote:I must have missed that thread.

Dino, what are your requirements for accepting a client?

Larry, it was on another forum, where I was trying to get ideas.

My partial list:

- Client pays promptly

- Client knows what they want (at least after I write their requirements, after discovery)

- I'm dealing with The Man, i. e., the project has a sponsor who has the clout and is accessible to me.

- Written contract without "scare" provisions

- If working on-site, adequate and suitable work facilities - this could be really extensive, reaching from a decent chair to lighting, noise, traffic, and of course computer and network

- If working off-site, minimum interruptions and scheduling demands

- Prompt response to my questions, prompt review of results (I had a guy ask to see my code before putting it into production, and the listing was still on his desk when I left 11 months later)