Guess what visa Faisal Shahzad came to U.S. on in 2002?

[I D Shukhov]

IE: you hate the H1B program means or implies that you hate brown skinned people of a vastly different culture. It makes all opponents of H1B look like, or can be inferred to look like racists. Your pocketbook and career management issue is transformed magically into your own assholishness and racism. You're a loser because you don't like Indians.

I think you nailed it GB.  I've been really upset by my own feelings because I've genuinely liked most of the H-1Bs I've worked with over the years.  And I derive great comfort from my belief in Buddhism, a school of thought that originated from Asia.  So I owe my religion, if you can call it that, to the East.

But last night, for example, the workplace had mostly cleared out and these two Chinese guys were speaking in Mandarin to each other.  Any kind of conversation bothers me and I reach for my headphones but this probably bothered me more...  Why?  Is it human nature to dislike the foreigners?  I have Mandarin tapes from the Pimsleur Language Program which I occasionally work with on my commute and I'd like to learn more about Chinese culture.  And I have 12 credit hours of Chinese from college.

Like you said:  "Your pocketbook and career management issue is transformed magically into your own assholishness and racism".   Add to that a lot of boys-and-girls-in-the-backroom infantilizing in the IT workplace that makes you hate everybody!

[The Gorn]

The concept here is "untermenschen" - sub-human. Indians seem to be self selected as an underclass for the H1B program. And only Indians accept the worst treatment. You don't see other national or ethnic groups putting up with the crap that Indian H1Bs have to.

If anything, H1B implementation is racist. White and western nationals seem to get a better deal under guest visas, or at least, they aren't desperate enough to want to deal with it. Like I said, you don't see the Russian, British or Australian H1Bs living 6 to an apartment and all riding to work in a tiny car.

But last night, for example, the workplace had mostly cleared out and these two Chinese guys were speaking in Mandarin to each other.  Any kind of conversation bothers me and I reach for my headphones but this probably bothered me more...  Why?  Is it human nature to dislike the foreigners?  I have Mandarin tapes from the Pimsleur Language Program which I occasionally work with on my commute and I'd like to learn more about Chinese culture.  And I have 12 credit hours of Chinese from college.

Bad behavior, IMO. "Round-eyes, you don't get to understand what we are saying because we are separate from you. But we want to compete for the same things. You can't do anything about it." I think a lot of guest workers bring the hateful attitudes on themselves. One has to be kind of an inconsiderate asshole to make a show of speaking in a different language than everyone else. Not a PC opinion but it's really what is happening.

[I D Shukhov]

Bad behavior, IMO. "Round-eyes, you don't get to understand what we are saying because we are separate from you. But we want to compete for the same things. You can't do anything about it." I think a lot of guest workers bring the hateful attitudes on themselves. One has to be kind of an inconsiderate asshole to make a show of speaking in a different language than everyone else. Not a PC opinion but it's really what is happening.

Certainly if it's in a meeting, speaking Mandarin is rude.  I think I understand why they do it among themselves, though.  A Chinese guy who sat in the cube next to me at my previous job told me that he had a distorted self-image because he had to think and speak English.  The language is so vastly different than ours that I can see how this would happen.  Familiar words and concepts don't exist, strange concepts aren't understood.  I bought The Geography of Thought -- How Asians and Westerners Think Differently...and Why by Richard Nisbett a couple of months ago.  Unfortunately, it's lain around unread so so I can't write much about it.  From what thumbing through I've done, it appears that Chinese think more holistically, whereas we Westerners think more analytically, or at least try to.  Anyway, that's why they speak in their own tongue, they just feel more at "home".

[The Gorn]

I see what you're saying.

The US is an exceptionally liberal place for a foreigner to come and make a life. We accommodate everyone to a degree that no other country on the face of the earth does.

Having said that, I believe that you have to fit in if you live in a new place. I am not certain that I could successfully acclimatize to day to day worklife alongside Southeast Asians.

At least someone coming to a new country - even the hyper-pluralistic US - has to understand that you have to get along and understand your host country. If I moved to another country, even for work, I would feel personally obliged to embrace and understand local culture.