Public health insurance option

[DG9]

If this is too political in nature, feel free to delete it, no hard feelings...

I am just curious, if a public option becomes available why wouldn't most companies just dump offering health insurance and leave us with essentially what is/becomes socialized medicine?  Not trying to light any fires here, just concerned that only the very wealthy that can afford concierge medical services will escape this.  Am I off base?

[Origisaurus]

I happen to agree with it.  This is exactly what the VRWCTM is complaining about.

There are very few economic issues today that are free of political overtones.  Let's keep it civil, please.

[Richardk]

Isn't Wal-Mart accused of this? Lots of part time people with low pay and no benefits so they basically use public assistance programs as their "preferred health provider". I've seen other companies that offer "full benefits" but at such a low level that it's basically useless and offers little value.

With that in mind, maybe having health insurance would be a real perk or job benefit. So in essence maybe just the opposite would happen. You can work at company X with the public option or for us with the "Ultra-Mega Health Plan".

Of course this is assuming that we have a strong economy and that the company can actually afford to offer health insurance and / or pay its employees enough so they can afford the premiums. It's one thing to be young, healthy and single versus needing a family plan with middle-aged adults and a few kids even if everyone is healthy.

[Richardk]

I am just curious, if a public option becomes available why wouldn't most companies just dump offering health insurance and leave us with essentially   what is/becomes socialized medicine?

Based on the fear and uncertainty of the public option at town hall meetings in the news, I wonder if a company would offer even 'bottom rung' insurance just to say that their employees don't need to rely on the public plan.

I'm thinking from an employee retention point of view but again currently supply of employees is far greater than demand. Also this probably only works with jobs that are high paying. Everything else below this would be an opportunity to cut 'employee burden'.

[John Masterson]

If this is too political in nature, feel free to delete it, no hard feelings...

I expect this to happen sooner than later. We'll have to see who spoils it first. You already tainted it with the slant of the phrase "socialized medicine". Strike 1.

I think we probably are allowed only two strike for this thread to disappear.

Choose your words carefully, friends...

[John Masterson]

I don't believe the public option is free.

You'd still have to pay a monthly premium, wouldn't you?

I thought it is simply a way to increase competition among insurers to incent them to offer the best care at the lowest possible cost to the consumer.

I.e., free market economics. People will go to where they get the most satisfaction for their money.

Insurance companies that charge high premiums and deny claims, pocketing too much of the money rather than paying it out, will be ignored and will fail.

[DG9]

if the very mention of a phrase like "socialized medicine" has tainted the it.  I'll move on other topics...

[John Masterson]

if the very mention of a phrase like "socialized medicine" has tainted the it. I'll move on other topics...

DG9,

It's just that the phrase is politically loaded. I realize you were not intending to break the rule of "no political discussion".

[Richardk]

I don't believe the public option is free.  
 
  You'd still have to pay a monthly premium, wouldn't you?

From what I've heard that's the plan and why not? If a company chooses to make that "it's plan" then why shouldn't the company be paying into it?

That way it becomes just another option for those that can't afford anything better. My understanding was to provide coverage, that's also preventative instead of using emergency rooms. It's cheaper to society as a whole to treat something early instead of dealing with it in the ER when it's critical.

The principal is good, how we get there is another issue.

Oh, did you mean the insured or the company?

We have a state plan that's basically the "public option" for the unemployed and working poor that's tiered to your income. When you have nothing, this plan seems to cover basic needs.

[DG9]

I'm not making a judgement on whether socialized medicine is good or bad, but that does seem to be what would be left if companies drop insurance as a benefit (cost) and all that is left is whatever the government will provide.   The good is that everyone gets some degree of health care (well there are the ERs now, bad choice, I know) the bad is that quality goes down and waiting goes up.  Which ever way it goes, I like the added emphasis on wellness and prevention through education.  For example, making some smart food choices, taking a walk, the little things can add up to positive results.

Maybe this is just too political, don't know that anything will be solved or helped by even discussing it. The thread may be better off dead.  Whatever you think JM,  I'm just rambling through some thoughts, not a big deal either way...

[John Masterson]

RichardK,

I meant there is a premium for each insured person or family.

It could be paid by the employer as a benefit, or directly by the person/family, as far as I see it.

[John Masterson]

I'm not making a judgement on whether socialized medicine is good or bad, but that does seem to be what would be left if companies drop insurance as a   benefit (cost) and all that is left is whatever the government will provide. The good is that everyone gets some degree of health care (well there are the   ERs now, bad choice, I know) the bad is that quality goes down and waiting goes up. Which ever way it goes, I like the added emphasis on wellness and   prevention through education. For example, making some smart food choices, taking a walk, the little things can add up to positive results.  
 
  Maybe this is just too political, don't know that anything will be solved or helped by even discussing it. The thread may be better off dead. Whatever   you think JM, I'm just rambling through some thoughts, not a big deal either way...

I think if we just stick to the mechanics of the thing, and the economic behavior, and the effects...we're fine.

It's when we inject value judgments as to what the final goal "should" be that it becomes a political discussion.


I am kind of watching this as an experiment in self-control.  We'll see who has it, and who can't help themselves.  

[DG9]

[The Gorn]

...Employers, nationally, just left the business of insuring employees - cold turkey. It has become part of the poor national policy on health care and health insurance.

Employees on health plans are almost completely insulated from the true costs of medical insurance.

And they think that they have to defend something that is "theirs". News flash to all heads down employees - you are your employer's b*tch so you "own" nothing. And you couldn't afford the care that they are buying for you - which depresses your wages with overhead expense against your employer.

This is the key problem. You coddle a group, so that group gets all defensive.

The right is bitterly set against socialized health insurance because (among other reasons) the true costs of health plans will be opaque to consumers. Could be, I am not saying that this is not correct.

But guess what, that's a true statement as things are right now. Except "sugar daddy" is now the system of employer purchased health insurance coverage.

No legislation required.

[TRexx]

..Employers, nationally, just left the business of insuring employees - cold turkey. It has become part of the poor national policy on health care and health   insurance.

What I can't understand is why every employer in the country isn't beating on Congress to get them to disconnect insurance from employment.  All the plans seem to be doing the exact opposite -- they force employers to provide coverage.  Even if there is a tax break for the poor, how does that help someone who is unemployed?