MS Access or web app?

[lorb]

I've never tried to setup Access so that the queries passed through to SQL server, but I don't fully trust it as I have seen on message boards where people have problems.  Plus, it can mean more VBA coding.  Although this would be preferable to stand-alone, cutting down the size of the file.

In my experience, if a company can afford SQL Server, then they can also afford shrink-wrapped SW that runs on SQL Server, so that there is no work for a programmer to find, unless one wants to send data asynchronously between these systems, and that would require too much knowledge of the shrink-wrapped business SW APIs.

Straight-up in my experience a good Access developer will be able to do CRUD like functionality twice as fast as a good Web developer. For reports it's an even higher multiple? Drill down reports aren't even comparable.

I googled Access drill-down report images and I see it's just a group by statement.  That is the equivalent of a tab on a JFrame panel with a 'group by' query.

Also, SQL server as a backend is expensive.

[Richardk]

Here's a bunch of tidbits:

• The original programmer might be interested in doing the work.
• The code modules are also password protected and guess who has the password.
• They are a non-profit, so they can get cheap copies of Access.
• The original guy did it for next to free so they are thinking about $1,000 BUT if they cover the cost of getting Access and only need minor tweaks, it might be possible.
• The project at this point is upgrade to new version of Access, fix a form or two and a report or two (some sorting issue).
• Oh, they want to resell this.

On the surface, the workload of a few "fixes" and upgrade to the latest version could be done IF it's as easy as it seems. If we don't get the password, if it's a major piece of poo, if the list of to do's gets too long then all bets are off.

Also if the original guy steps in, I'm sure he'll gladly do lots of work for free.

One last thing, they mentioned being "available" when they're up and running and asked for a price. Apparently this is their major fund raiser and the software runs a fishing derby. Out of curiosity, I did a quick search and can't understand why they don't buy a package or service that has loads of bells and whistles to run their derby. Also by comparison, I can't see anyone buying their system since the others are so much nicer.

[lorb]

Tell them I'll do it for $1,000 using Java Swing, and I'll embed a RDBMS since it sound as if that is what they want.

In fact, I'll put my 1 page .com website up tonight and put the link to in the private section.

I can probably even get into the source code, if they send me the AccessDB file.  This has happened to me once before where the last coder lost the pwd and pwd protected his forms (following Darwin's rule: He who loses pwd gets naturally selected for next project - that's a joke.)  I was able to disassemble some of the code, not sure if it was the protected code or not.

I mean, what kind of developer for a non-profit locks forms and loses pwd.  Seriously!  I mean, the guy I knew of was their one programmer, did the same thing for a non-profit and was a consultant.  I mean, what are the odds of that being an accident?

The guy I am referring to would every few months redo the app, add a few fields and doll it up, but IMHO that was just about worthless.  People would even run it over the server (so that it was locked) and it took a few minutes for the screen to come up (because of the data being sent across).

Well, I am looking for a first project.  I could look at it and see how do-able it is, probably is doable, but getting into the code would be key.

I don't think a re-sellable Access app makes sense.  Once MS puts out the "all new" Access 2011 or 2012 or etc, then how silly would that make it look?

The original programmer might be interested in doing the work.

Of course he would be.

The code modules are also password protected and guess who has the password.

The code doesn't get compiled, only interpreted, so the original source could probably be broken into.

#

They are a non-profit, so they can get cheap copies of Access.

That's what they all say, which is why they will also be upgrading to Access 20xx when it comes out.

#

The original guy did it for next to free

Sure he did.

[Richardk]

I mean, what kind of developer for a non-profit locks forms and loses pwd.  Seriously!  I mean, the guy I knew of was their one programmer, did the same thing for a non-profit and was a consultant.  I mean, what are the odds of that being an accident?

Who said that he lost it? He just never handed it over and I'm wondering who actually owns the code? With everything that I can see, there is no copyright notice, author or anything else. For all I know, he "donated" his time but retained ownership of the code. On the other hand he sounds "friendly" but doesn't have much time to do the work himself. And I'm not sure if I really care.

[lorb]

"friendly" but doesn't have much time

Par for the course.  Does he have 3 children to feed or 4?  If people were motivated by free, it would probably be done already.

In my experience, people start out for "next to nothing", but once they get some clients under their belt, that equation changes and they move on.

[jbucks]

Personally, with what my limited experience is, in dealing with essentially keeping an existing application working - I WOULD RUN AWAY FROM IT (unless I absolutely, positively had to have the $$$ or I was going to go without food or lose the house).  This sounds like a lose/lose proposition to you.

You know the MS Access P.O.C. I'm dealing with and every time you think you've got it figured out, someone turns over a new rock and the amount of work goes exponential.

I hope this is something simple (like a personal address book, or recipe application), and you're doing it on a T&M basis?

Jim

[Richardk]

Jim, this app is an order of magnitude simpler than the dead guy's app and unlike your little shop of horrors, I think this group is a bit less demanding.

With that said, the mess under the hood remains to be seen.

Though thinking about it, the solution is very similar to your own problem. Moving the database is probably the easiest task. It's the forms and reports that are more challenging since Access actually does a pretty good job with that. To have that fat client feel, you really need to use something like Java, AJAX, ASP.NET's code-behind model or possibly Adobe's Flex with ActionScript. I'm not sure which one is the most productive tool but they are a step up from coding in Access.

[Richardk]

They are interested in moving forward but they don't have the password for the code module.

The previous guy is now interested in the project but they told him no thanks. He insists that he gave them the password and doesn't remember it anymore. (So how would he do this job?)

The project is now a limited maintenance job that will remain in Access as a LAN app but without access to the code, I can't even determine if I'm interested.

Does anyone have or know of any good tools or methods to retrieve or reset the password for the code module? This is an Access 2000 file. I found a few online that 'do nothing'; others that want money but do they work and I've been warned that many 'crackers' contain virus loads.

So at this point, I think it's worth a look if I can get inside.

[jbucks]

I've got one I bought to break into the "dead guy's code".  Can you ship me the .mdb /  .mdw files?  If so, I'll run them though my tool and get you the passwords that turn up.

Jim

[Richardk]

Thanks. I emailed you.

[Origisaurus]

I've never tried to setup Access so that the queries passed through to SQL server, but I don't fully trust it as I have seen on message boards where people have problems.  Plus, it can mean more VBA coding. 

Don't see the VBA coding.  You can link to a 'foreign' db table, regardless of db engine via a 'Data Source' on Windoze.  Right-click in the tables window and follow the links.  End result is that your linked table looks to Access just like a local table.  Slower due to network delays.  Problems usually due to incompetent systems admin.

(Yes, I am familiar with "if OK then OK")

Many coders don't 'believe' in SQL and so feel compelled to code their stuff in sequential code.  Not my problem, and I wish them well back in Mumbai.

[Richardk]

I have to agree that I don't see a problem. To Access they are just tables and it's easy to link to SQL Server.

Where Access starts to fail is with multiple users hitting it over a network. If you have that much going on then maybe Access isn't your solution.