Author Topic: LED light bulbs are finally here!  (Read 382 times)

benali72

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LED light bulbs are finally here!
« on: November 26, 2017, 10:29:55 PM »
I see Home Depot offers 8 LED 60-watt-equivalent bulbs for only $10. Either in Bright or Soft versions. They consume only 8.5 watts each. Finally! Looks like led bulbs have arrived for general use. I'm very happy with them and have replaced all my CFL 60-watt-equivalents with them. Nice!

The Gorn

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Re: LED light bulbs are finally here!
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2017, 11:04:19 PM »
The only big question being, do they last? Occasionally we have LED bulbs on strands of Christmas lights go dark. But 1.25 apiece for a light bulb that easily outperforms incandescents is really not bad.

I assume that LEDs have far fewer toxic nasty elements in them and far lesser risk issues than CFLs. LEDs can only be an improvement over CFLs.
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pxsant

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Re: LED light bulbs are finally here!
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2017, 03:19:18 AM »
I have been using LED bulbs for several years.   I don't have a single CF or incandescent in the house.  A year or so ago Home Depot had a special sale on LED bulbs for about 80% off (somewhere around $2.50) so I bought a couple of  dozen.   I installed about half in my daughter's house.  In the past couple of years I have only had one bulb fail.  At 8 watts, can't go wrong.

unix

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Re: LED light bulbs are finally here!
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2017, 05:37:11 AM »
The Costco brand, Feit is apparently troublesome. Amazon reviews are at 3.5 stars. Home Depot brand is nicer. I got the 100w replacement - nice.
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benali72

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Re: LED light bulbs are finally here!
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2017, 09:43:09 AM »
Hey all, thank guys for the brand information. I've been wondering how long these things will last. I still remember when CFLs first came out, the market was flooded with cheap Chinese made ones, some of which burned out way faster than was claimed. I bought my LEDs at Home Depot so hopefully I get the same good results as pxsand and unix.

I love the fact they eliminate the environmental disaster of CFLs-- I mean seriously, who could really follow all those disposal requirements all the time.

Plus the LEDs don't get hot beneath small lampshades, so you can put a 75 or 100 equivalent in a 60-watt rated device without worries. Fantastic. Cheers.

The Gorn

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Re: LED light bulbs are finally here!
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2017, 02:11:37 PM »
We had a motion sensor coach light next to our garage's door go out this summer so we bought a replacement my wife fell in love with. When I went to install it, much to my chagrin it had a self contained LED light in it. I wouldn't have gotten it if I'd known but we kept it and I installed it and caulked it in.

The motion part doesn't work very well so we leave the light on so it stays on all night. It's as bright as a 100 watt bulb yet when I touch the LED light inside the shade it's barely warm.

Almost 100% efficiency in converting electricity to light, QUITE impressive. Even CFLs get pretty hot.
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ilconsiglliere

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Re: LED light bulbs are finally here!
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2017, 10:30:56 AM »
I just installed LED recessed lighting in my kitchen. I ripped out the entire ceiling and put in recessed HALO lighting cans. I did not pick LED only cans but rather cans that were capable of taking regular bulbs, LED bulbs or LED recessed lighting modules. Than I put the sheet rock back. Came out pretty nice. My family was in construction so this kind of work does not scare me and I have done it before. This is my first time using LED's.

My recessed lighting LED modules were made by HALO who makes the majority of recessed cans on the market. They are not like bulbs at all - they are more like hockey pucks with a built in trim ring. The whole module screws into a standard Edison socket.  Here is what I put in:

http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/lighting/brands/recessed_halo/_led_retrofit.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDmlhcGwPJo

There are a few things I like - they dont barely consume any electricity and they also dont generate heat. This is a very good thing as most recessed lights generate a ton of heat. I did a cost analysis - trim ring + LED flood light bulb was more expensive than buying these modules from HALO. So I gave it a shot.

We shall see how long they last. I am usually not an early adopter and wait for the price to come down. The prices of LEDs are coming down like a rock. I was disappointed with the CFL bulbs - none lasted as long as they said it would.

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Re: LED light bulbs are finally here!
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2017, 11:20:55 AM »
I just installed LED recessed lighting in my kitchen.
....
We shall see how long they last. I am usually not an early adopter and wait for the price to come down. The prices of LEDs are coming down like a rock. I was disappointed with the CFL bulbs - none lasted as long as they said it would.

Niiiiiice. Thanks for the mini-review.

We have can lights in the kitchen that were installed in 2000, and in 2007 our contractor poured extra insulation in the attic. So there is one can light apparently covered in batting up above that from time to time goes out (thermal safety shutdown) right over where I cook.

Are LED lights capable of dimming?

I wonder if LEDs actually appropriated alien technology? I'm wondering. :D They seem a little too good to be true.
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ilconsiglliere

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Re: LED light bulbs are finally here!
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2017, 04:51:42 PM »
I just installed LED recessed lighting in my kitchen.
....
We shall see how long they last. I am usually not an early adopter and wait for the price to come down. The prices of LEDs are coming down like a rock. I was disappointed with the CFL bulbs - none lasted as long as they said it would.

Niiiiiice. Thanks for the mini-review.

We have can lights in the kitchen that were installed in 2000, and in 2007 our contractor poured extra insulation in the attic. So there is one can light apparently covered in batting up above that from time to time goes out (thermal safety shutdown) right over where I cook.

Are LED lights capable of dimming?

I wonder if LEDs actually appropriated alien technology? I'm wondering. :D They seem a little too good to be true.

You mentioned that the thermal overload kicks in on the can. You may know this but there are IC (insulation contact) and non-IC (non insulation contact cans). IC cans are designed to be in contact with insulation and behave normally. NON-IC cans are designed to NOT be in contact with insulation. If the non-IC can comes in contact with insulation you can have a fire. Most cans have thermal overload protection to prevent the fire but you should check it. If its a non-IC can you should replace the can with an IC can or move the insulation away from it.

Also they are now making sealed cans so you don't  loose your heat or cooling up through the can. The bottom of the can has a rubber seal that goes tight against the sheetrock. I put in sealed cans even though I have another floor above.

Yes LEDs can be dimmed but not all of them. You have to read the side of the box, they usually say it outright whether they can be dimmed.

The one thing you do need is a dimmer that is capable of controlling LEDs. They have to be reverse or forward cut phase dimmers. I used this one:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Toggler-150-Watt-Single-Pole-3-Way-CFL-LED-Dimmer-White-TGCL-153PH-WH/202746671

The little tab/slot on the side next to the switch is the dimmer. Whats nice about these is they use standard wall plates. Works fine. If you don't use the right one you can get some weirdness with the LEDs:

https://insights.regencylighting.com/heres-an-overview-of-common-led-dimming-issues-and-how-to-fix-them
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 05:02:27 PM by ilconsiglliere »

The Gorn

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Re: LED light bulbs are finally here!
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2017, 11:18:24 PM »
You mentioned that the thermal overload kicks in on the can. You may know this but there are IC (insulation contact) and non-IC (non insulation contact cans). IC cans are designed to be in contact with insulation and behave normally. NON-IC cans are designed to NOT be in contact with insulation. If the non-IC can comes in contact with insulation you can have a fire. Most cans have thermal overload protection to prevent the fire but you should check it. If its a non-IC can you should replace the can with an IC can or move the insulation away from it.

Thanks for the tip. One contractor installed the cans in 2000 and he was a dipshit I lost contact with, another did the insulation in 2007 and I maintain his website. I should ask him about this.

Although, if I installed LED bulbs into those cans the heat issue would be pretty much moot.
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ilconsiglliere

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Re: LED light bulbs are finally here!
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2017, 02:02:14 AM »
You mentioned that the thermal overload kicks in on the can. You may know this but there are IC (insulation contact) and non-IC (non insulation contact cans). IC cans are designed to be in contact with insulation and behave normally. NON-IC cans are designed to NOT be in contact with insulation. If the non-IC can comes in contact with insulation you can have a fire. Most cans have thermal overload protection to prevent the fire but you should check it. If its a non-IC can you should replace the can with an IC can or move the insulation away from it.

Thanks for the tip. One contractor installed the cans in 2000 and he was a dipshit I lost contact with, another did the insulation in 2007 and I maintain his website. I should ask him about this.

Although, if I installed LED bulbs into those cans the heat issue would be pretty much moot.

Yep, with the LEDs the heat goes away. Even when on for a while they are just luke warm to the touch. Halo has these LEDs that install into a regular junction box, you don't even need the can. Thats how cool these things are.

http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/lighting/products/recessed_general_purpose_downlighting/led/_6_inch_led_smd6/_889910.html

I should have been an electrician ;) .

The Gorn

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Re: LED light bulbs are finally here!
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2017, 08:50:36 AM »
I love electrical work:

- Doing your own wiring inspires awe. Normies are scared shitless by electrical work. Nobody in the general population understands electricity.

- No water pressure or drainage to deal with and usually no leaks (grounding issues aside.) Electric is really clean to deal with. It's either: powering something; disconnected entirely; or shorting out.

It's really satisfying to buy a box of Romex for $30-100, a new breaker, and a utility box, and a few hours later you have a new outlet in your house that would have cost $300+ for an electrician to run.
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benali72

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Re: LED light bulbs are finally here!
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2017, 02:34:23 PM »
Gorn and Ilconsigliere -- I only wish I had your electrical talents. I hope to evolve to your level one day where I won't be paying through the nose for something I could have done myself.

Meanwhile -- I noticed that the new 60-watt-equivalent Ecosmart LEDs I bought from Home Depot are way brighter than the Ecosmart 60-watt-equivalent CFLs I have.

I looked at the lumens, and the brighter bulbs actually have less lumens than the dimmer ones (840 vs 900)!  Say what?  I thought lumens were supposed to be the measure of how bright the bulb is.

Then I discovered that the Kelvin "color temperature" is the definitive factor in my case.

The bulbs with the higher Kelvin CT seem much brighter than those with lower KCT (5500 vs 2700), even tho they have less lumens!

I never knew to look at this before. I incorrectly thought it was all about lumens and incandescent-watt-equivalents.

KCT chart and explanation -- www.lumens.com/how-tos-and-advice/kelvin-color-temperature.html

ilconsiglliere

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Re: LED light bulbs are finally here!
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2017, 03:53:12 PM »
Gorn and Ilconsigliere -- I only wish I had your electrical talents. I hope to evolve to your level one day where I won't be paying through the nose for something I could have done myself.

Meanwhile -- I noticed that the new 60-watt-equivalent Ecosmart LEDs I bought from Home Depot are way brighter than the Ecosmart 60-watt-equivalent CFLs I have.

I looked at the lumens, and the brighter bulbs actually have less lumens than the dimmer ones (840 vs 900)!  Say what?  I thought lumens were supposed to be the measure of how bright the bulb is.

Then I discovered that the Kelvin "color temperature" is the definitive factor in my case.

The bulbs with the higher Kelvin CT seem much brighter than those with lower KCT (5500 vs 2700), even tho they have less lumens!

I never knew to look at this before. I incorrectly thought it was all about lumens and incandescent-watt-equivalents.

KCT chart and explanation -- www.lumens.com/how-tos-and-advice/kelvin-color-temperature.html

Its not hard to pick it up. I know you can do it as you are smart. I knew a lot of it from years and years of being around it but there is stuff I didn't know so I got this book many years ago:

Electrical Wiring Residential by Ray C. Mullin.

This is the book that electricians learn from in school. If you buy it new its like $100+ but you can get a copy off of Ebay for $10. No joke. You don't need the latest one which has all the current electrical codes. The codes keep changing all the time. Any book from the last 10 years is good enough. As LEDs are evolving so rapidly they are not typically in the book anyway.

Yes Lumens is a funny thing. I have seen the same thing myself. Kelvin measures the color temperature of the light I typically try to install recessed lights of about 3500-4000 kelvin. To low a temperature the color of the light is more golden, to bright of a temperature - like 5000-6000 its very harsh bright bluefish light.

You can see the color of the light in this picture:


The Gorn

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Re: LED light bulbs are finally here!
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2017, 05:02:00 PM »
Quote from: Benali72
I only wish I had your electrical talents.

Household electrical work doesn't demand any real talents. It's all rote, easily learned principles. And not that many principles and ideas.  If you're an IT or engineering graduate it is 1/1000 of the rigor of technology work.
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