Who Here Strives for Self-Knowledge and Understanding of Themselves?

[The Gorn]

I'm just curious. It is a somewhat natural question to pose given our conversations about job searches and the nature of the employment market.

One thing. I'm not asking if you re-engineer yourself. I'm talking about a search for your own inner self even in a narrow sense, IE, trying to combat overeating or some other tendency, as well as more broad, general studies of your career motivations, etc.

[Origisaurus]

Complete?  Well no.  I try for what seems likely to serve my purpose, and neither of those is always clear.  What can I do today that will best serve me?  A plausible approximation will do.  And, contrary to popular, shallow, belief, not knowing instantly the precise answer is not indecision, it is seeing and pondering a great many choices.

Like a touchy-feely guru I once knew, I get a lot of entertainment spectating.  Observing the behavior and motivations of others.  Never let on, that's not cricket - Yes, I think I see your problem and you don't want to hear what I think.  I am simply amused, and enlightened.

[The Gorn]

You mentioned the word "complete" so I removed it from the title. I don't know why I placed that word where I did but it was misleading. I'm curious about the instinct for self improvement, beginning with problem analysis, in my peers.

I'll clarify why I am asking.

Some long time users here definitely fall into patterns when describing the trajectory of their lives.  I do, myself, quite distinctly. I see even more obvious patterns in the commentary of certain specific users.

One general pattern that most IT people fall into, which impedes their success substantially, is lack of assertion. 

An concrete example of assertion in real life use is prospecting. Calling someone or asking them to talk to you is assertive. Sending someone an email or relying  on the grey goo of the internet to deliver clients to you is passive and non-assertive. Technology people have constructed a HUGE edifice of rationalizing the lack of assertion as intellectually correct and most "proper". The focus today on social networking to find leads is an example of this.

Another concrete example of assertion in real life use is negotiation - just standing up to the prospect or client and holding out for what you need.

Techies are notoriously poor at both of these activities. It is no wonder that borks consider us laughable weaklings. We lack assertion as a profession.

In my own reading I'm finding out some other things about myself, which seem to be classical anti-patterns that are well known. And not pathologies that mark me as a weak effed up person.  Which is often the response one gets in discussions on, say, message boards.

I see more pathological avoidance tendencies with many of my peers, though.

If you take the commentary from some individuals on this board literally, they were personally pre-ordained for lousy professional lives, so they implicitly absolve themselves of responsibility for the end result that is their present career. I know a few guys in my personal circle who reason like that.

I think all of IT is pretty weird psychologically, now that I have started to pick away at some of my own foibles. Our culture of purposefully avoiding any activity having to do with assertion is universal - it is also somewhere between childish, lazy and idealistic.

It's a wonder with this baggage that any of us in IT even get employed. 

[datagirl]

I'm in between two of the yes options.  At the moment I'm passive, but at times I become active if there is an specific goal I'm trying to achieve.  There was a time I was *extremely* active, but I got burned out.  You're correct about lack of assertion.  The thing is, as this is an essential part of who I am, it is very stressful to me to try to be something I'm not.  I've been doing the "calm and assertive" Dog Whisperer thing at home, but I have to make a conscious decision to do it.

I'm in a transitional phase in my life - the whole female "change of life" thing.  It's like going through adolescence all over again - ugh!  Sometimes when I try to be assertive, something triggers my bitch button and I say and do things my usual laid-back self would never do.  I think some of this are the new heart meds, but you can't get the doctors to admit that's the problem.

So anyway, I'm waiting for the dust to settle a little, looking around for other career directions, but not quite ready to commit to any single thing yet.  I've already missed my chance at being a child prodigy or a biological mom (my stepson tells me I'm more of a mother than I think - not sure how to take that).  I guess it's time to start the bucket list (fodder for another thread?) and see what I can do to make those goals while I'm still ambulatory.

Really, if it weren't for needing survival funds and banking coin for retirement, I would say that I'm satisfied with who I am.  But God's not finished with me yet.  Stay tuned....
-DG

[Carrie Cobol]

Funny you mention calm and assertive "dog whisperer" thing.  Insert greyhound freak lady here.     Here I am!

Assertive in the dog world isn't the same as in the human world.  For dogs, it's more just confident and comfortable with who you are and what you're doing.  You can be a shy, timid human and still a good dog leader.

I didn't vote because I fit somewhere between the yesses also.  For me, it's more that I ask myself questions, I poll myself from time to time.  Do I understand why I am behaving like that?  Am I honest with myself?  Do I really, truly want that?  Is that worth the price?  (not just money, but effort of attaining)  If the answer to any of those is no, it's time for some rework.  I don't bother with self-help books because most of them are utter bullshit.  Some do help people who haven't the first clue how to be honest with themselves or have an internal dialog.  For me, it's more helpful to read the occasional book on neurology, hard core psychology, sociology, and ethnography.  (I think that last one is a new field.)  Politics fascinate me; why do people manipulate other people.  That kind of thing.  I'm really good at understanding company politics when I see them in play, but I suck at playing so I don't bother.  I'm a poor liar and can't bs my way out of a paper bag.  Manipulating people is not for me.

[The Gorn]

I'm in between two of the yes options.  At the moment I'm passive, but at times I become active if there is an specific goal I'm trying to achieve.  There was a time I was *extremely* active, but I got burned out.  You're correct about lack of assertion.  The thing is, as this is an essential part of who I am, it is very stressful to me to try to be something I'm not.  I've been doing the "calm and assertive" Dog Whisperer thing at home, but I have to make a conscious decision to do it.
...
Really, if it weren't for needing survival funds and banking coin for retirement, I would say that I'm satisfied with who I am.  But God's not finished with me yet.  Stay tuned....

I'll explain my own motivation to engage in this self analysis. Your comments provide a good jumping off point.

I have some goals I am trying to achieve but I am finding that I am fairly miserable when I make attempts to do so. I mean prospecting specifically.

Yet overall, I am happy as a person and I do not have areas of my psyche with which I am dissatisfied to the point of pain. I can socialize with anyone I care to. I can even do public speaking now without vomiting. And if someone walks on me, I can respond with force in socially appropriate ways.

Example, recently I got the car manufacturer to fix my wife's out of warranty car that had a rust problem that should only happen to cars in the junkyard. I can kick ass when I need to.

But, prospecting, putting myself out there with people who don't yet know me, has been painful. If you subtract THAT from what I believe I need to do in my career and life, then I have virtually nothing at present that compels me to work on it.

Recently I dug up in the basement a book I purchased years ago (I will review it separately) that is essentially about diagnosing and dealing with the behaviors and thinking process that make prospecting painful.

I can say that my own quirks fit into about six out of 12 well defined and well known prospecting hindrances. I do have a lot of hangups. I had up to now been looking for a coach who could help me deal with them. As I read this book I find that looking for a coach would simply be an expensive band-aid.

This study has already helped me a lot just to know that what I thought was general cowardice or excessive nerd meekness is actually a few specific ways in which my brain casts certain social situations.

And there are therapies (each of which take some time and attention) that are alleged to work to help ward off, reduce, or deal with each of these quirk areas.

My point is - like you, I can't stop working - and yet - I don't want to be miserable doing those things that I see as being critical and necessary to my economic survival.

That's why I am doing this.

[The Gorn]

You're answering a silly unscientific poll of my creation, you're not submitting a medical history. 

Just choose one that is closest to how you regard and conduct these activities and don't worry about it not being 100% correct.

It's just interested to see where everyone is on this.

[Carrie Cobol]

Gorn, you sound like an introvert who is trying to become an extrovert.  That's tough.  Wasn't there a study not long ago that showed that:

*  introverts spend alot of energy being sociable and actually feel tired afterwards, and recharge from solitude
*  extroverts recharge from being sociable and feel drained from solitude

Can this be overcome?  The study didn't address that question.

[Carrie Cobol]

You're answering a silly unscientific poll of my creation, you're not submitting a medical history. 

LOL, good because it's long and sordid!  I'll go vote.   

[The Gorn]

Gorn, you sound like an introvert who is trying to become an extrovert.  That's tough.  Wasn't there a study not long ago that showed that:

*  introverts spend alot of energy being sociable and actually feel tired afterwards, and recharge from solitude
*  extroverts recharge from being sociable and feel drained from solitude

Can this be overcome?  The study didn't address that question.

To be extremely specific about it, I will (if this is successful to a substantial degree) be an introvert who has mastered his thoughts to an extent that I can successfully prospect, and perhaps do other things that require a sense of peace about particular aspects of self promotion.

I originally said I am kind of like Spock at war with his human and Vulcan halves.  But I don't think being an introvert is at odds with being functional when needed.

I'm about half extroverted. Example, I can't code any more because I can't deal with the endless hours of solitude.

But I can definitely function well around people generally for extended periods.

I do need lots of time to recharge, though.

So in my particular case that is what I am dealing with. YMMV.

Hey, I figure that ANY improvement is better than NO improvement. And I am working on core problems, not trying to find a coach to wave a magic wand over me.

As far as the study goes - this particular study focuses first on identifying the specific problem areas or behavioral or thought process issues.

I have done enough cold calling and certainly thought about it enough to have a really good profile of my particular issues.

I didn't want to give a report on the book right now, but here is one example of a quirk (one which I don't have): "Role rejection". You think that being a salesperson is slimy and low class so you avoid identifying with the role. And that directly affects being able to sell effectively.

There are 11 other pathologies, also. It's quite granular.

This particular text has a set of recommended therapies or exercises that deal with each of these issues. Some are behavior based, some are thought process based, some are word based.

This book heavily references I D Shukhov's favorite philosopher, Epictetus.

I believe that being an introvert who understands and deals with his own thought process and behaviors to the extent that self promotion is at least possible and readily doable places me at a significant strategic advantage. It's quite rare. In most of society the technology doers are the quiet people who have others do selling for them. And the sellers and marketers can't do anything.

I am stuck being a quiet person who knows his shit, so this is the best use of my effort at present, to branch out and master things that few others in my position do.

[I D Shukhov]

The goal of hard vocational work is to become independent (run your own business, be at the top of the food chain in a company).  You will then achieve the basic need of freedom.  Not too many slaves feel very good about themselves.

I think that's why doing something of a self-help nature always seems to take a back seat (for me)  relative  to doing something that seems to be part of the path  to achieving work independence.

It's definitely not a good idea, though, because one's mental health will not only drive success in business, but in all areas of one's life.   I'd be more than happy to consistently spend 1 hour a day doing the things listed in the poll.   I even budget for them, but they always take  a lower priority and never get done.

Maybe I'll try "paying myself first"  -- i.e. spend the 1st hour of each day helping myself.

[I D Shukhov]

I just looked at my avatar.   I'm going to start with a makeover of my avatar.   

[The Gorn]

I think that's why doing something of a self-help nature always seems to take a back seat (for me)  relative  to doing something that seems to be part of the path  to achieving work independence.

It's definitely not a good idea, though, because one's mental health will not only drive success in business, but in all areas of one's life.   

I am doing this to expand the envelope of what I can reasonably expect to be able to do in order to build my business.

I've posted before about "looking down the abyss". People here want to say - oh, no, it's not that bad, it will come around.

IT IS that bad. And no, it won't come around. Dammit.

Or you get the commentary from those with deep Asperger's and/or too much childish faith in the technological who will assert something like "the obvious problem is that you weren't coding the right things that would get you work, and you are behind because you lack cred as a developer, and you need to be more l33t so that you can find work. Then it will correct itself on its own. You should not work on anything else but code because that's all there is."

I guess I chased everyone away from the board who reasons like that. 

I was reading a while back about fifty somethings who have exempted themselves from the employment market. I think it was a NY Times article - they are excellent about these profiles of modern society.

One segment in the article showed this overweight guy in his 50s who was lounging in an easy chair with bare feet. His wife was standing in back of him. The piece about them said that his primary activity was posting product reviews to Amazon, and that he had reached some super duper stellar level of count of total review submissions. His wife was still working. But they were slowly going underwater financially. He explained that all of the jobs available were beneath him.

The guy looked like a big fat slob, a huge human zit or leech.

I fear that if I don't actively change the path I am on now, I will become that guy. And I think I want to be euthanized if that happens.

That's why I am doing this.

[unix]

Good question.

[DarkHumour]

I had a long version and a medium length version. 

Basically want the lyrics to Radiohead's 'Creep' to no longer be biographical.