Author Topic: Sobering NYT Story about Apple and China and jobs  (Read 348 times)

John Masterson

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Sobering NYT Story about Apple and China and jobs
« on: January 22, 2012, 11:41:22 pm »
Have you read this fascinating, and sobering, story about why Apple manufactures it's iPhone in China, and why those jobs are never coming back?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?pagewanted=all&src=ISMR_AP_LO_MST_FB

An excerpt:

"An eight-hour drive from that glass factory is a complex, known informally as Foxconn City, where the iPhone is assembled. To Apple executives, Foxconn City was further evidence that China could deliver workers — and diligence — that outpaced their American counterparts.

That’s because nothing like Foxconn City exists in the United States.

The facility has 230,000 employees, many working six days a week, often spending up to 12 hours a day at the plant. Over a quarter of Foxconn’s work force lives in company barracks and many workers earn less than $17 a day. When one Apple executive arrived during a shift change, his car was stuck in a river of employees streaming past. “The scale is unimaginable,” he said."

TRexx

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Re: Sobering NYT Story about Apple and China and jobs
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2012, 12:09:44 pm »
Reminds me of the Company Towns we had in the 19th century.  I wonder if they pay the workers in real money or company scrip?

The Gorn

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Re: Sobering NYT Story about Apple and China and jobs
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2012, 12:25:12 pm »
I don't see how it can last that long. Workers building products they could never afford for unseen supposedly rich people in decline.

Nothing like Foxconn city exists in the US and nothing like China's lack of environmental and worker protections exists here, either.
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TRexx

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Re: Sobering NYT Story about Apple and China and jobs
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2012, 12:30:06 pm »
Nothing like Foxconn city exists in the US and nothing like China's lack of environmental and worker protections exists here, either.

Because the Chinese people can't elect a government to enact those protections.  It's Free Enterprise with no constraints. 

John Masterson

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Re: Sobering NYT Story about Apple and China and jobs
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2012, 04:06:02 pm »
Reading this article all the way through completely changed and deepened my understanding of the "offshoring assembly to China" reality American workers are dealing with today.

DG9

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Re: Sobering NYT Story about Apple and China and jobs
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2012, 04:43:21 pm »
Doesn't sound like a "skills gap" or something education/training can fix as the politicos preach.

John Masterson

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Re: Sobering NYT Story about Apple and China and jobs
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2012, 06:48:34 pm »
Doesn't sound like a "skills gap" or something education/training can fix as the politicos preach.

No, it doesn't

The only thing Americans can do is get more training and education. I understand that there are many job opening for operating high-tech machines that require two years of college.

The most pressing issue is uneducated people having children without a traditional family unit, and those people failing to value education  for their children. 

It's not something government is good at fixing.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 07:46:53 pm by John Masterson »

DG9

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Re: Sobering NYT Story about Apple and China and jobs
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2012, 07:10:56 pm »
Quote
I understand that there are many job opening for operating high-tech machines that require two years of college.

Sounds a bit like the old two year "electronic data processing" degree.  Good for the short to medium term. 

On a side note, I remember autocoder programmers going back to community college to pick up BAL.

"Just as easy to fall in love with a rich one", should have listened to dear old Dad...  ;)

PhilFromNY

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Re: Sobering NYT Story about Apple and China and jobs
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2012, 10:00:49 pm »
Reminded me of the old Super Bowl commercial that was a sendup of IBM / Orwell's 1984. What an apropos comment on our times that's its Apple that is the benefactor of the souless working masses.

John Masterson

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Re: Sobering NYT Story about Apple and China and jobs
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2012, 11:00:03 pm »
Reminded me of the old Super Bowl commercial that was a sendup of IBM / Orwell's 1984. What an apropos comment on our times that's its Apple that is the benefactor of the souless working masses.

Wow. You are right. Tremendous irony there (or something).

Richardk

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Re: Sobering NYT Story about Apple and China and jobs
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2012, 12:04:34 am »
Wow. You are right. Tremendous irony there (or something).

Now there's a thought. Perhaps it was their plan all along?  ;)

Richardk

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Re: Sobering NYT Story about Apple and China and jobs
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2012, 12:08:55 am »
The only thing Americans can do is get more training and education. I understand that there are many job opening for operating high-tech machines that require two years of college.

I don't think it's that clear cut. Talking to one guy that went back to school, everyone has a different high-tech machine. So while the principals may be the same, your training could be on an entirely different system. So it still comes down to how picky your employer wants to be.

TechTalk

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Re: Sobering NYT Story about Apple and China and jobs
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2012, 02:28:54 am »
Well, the article focuses on manufacturing but it does highlight what many American workers are up against.  The following are two quotes from the article:

"The Chinese government had agreed to underwrite costs for numerous industries, and those subsidies had trickled down to the glass-cutting factory. It had a warehouse filled with glass samples available to Apple, free of charge. The owners made engineers available at almost no cost. They had built on-site dormitories so employees would be available 24 hours a day."

"The facility has 230,000 employees, many working six days a week, often spending up to 12 hours a day at the plant. Over a quarter of Foxconn’s work force lives in company barracks and many workers earn less than $17 a day."

Compared to many of their fellow Chinese citizens these factory workers are earning a decent wage.  That said, I doubt that any of them can afford to purchase one of the many products that Foxconn produces.  Supposedly, GM sold more cars in China last year than it did in the U.S.  I wonder where all of those GM car buying Chinese consumers work?

The following is why American based companies of all sizes are now using Asian countries to manufacture their products:
* Varies government subsidies.
* Extremely low-wage labor.
* No or very little environmental laws.
* No or very little employee labor protection.  I have read estimates that state somewhere between 1% to 5% of Foxconn's labor force consists of underage teenagers.

Ex General Electric CEO Jack Welch once said that if he could he would have all of his factories located on large ships and simply move to a different port when labor got too expensive (for his taste). 

People need to keep in mind that not every U.S. company has their manufacturing operations located within an Asian country.  Some northern factories have simply moved to southern states or whatever state is able to give them the best deal and some companies have factories in South American countries such as Mexico and Brazil.  Of course, there are also plenty of American solo entrepreneurs who have the product that they design and sell made in other countries as well.

I cannot really blame companies for doing what they believe is best for them.  I do blame our current and past Congressman for allowing this mess to happen and continue.  Our representatives might not be able to do much about automation, however, they could certainly do something about offshoring and inshoring. 

America is structurally designed around consumerism and for this to work in the long run you need a robust middle class that is willing and able to spend the money that they earn.  It will take some time but prices will eventually fall in this country when consumers stop spending (due to too much debt and no access to additional credit).

While technology has already disrupted a lot of industries, lowered the number of people employed and increased the marginal revenue product of labor, I think we are just getting started.  At some point, if we aren't there already, we are going to be in a situation where our long-term labor needs are substantially less than the supply.  I am certainly not advocating a Luddite inspired revolt against technology or remaining inefficient for the sake of keeping people employed, but those who argue that the reduced need for labor is all rainbows and unicorns often fail to account for the human element of the labor equation. 

Although the future looks very bleak for this country, it doesn't bother me too much.  I lived a fairly decent life so far and by the time the shit really hits the fan (if it actually does) I will be too old (if I am still alive) to care about what happens to myself, my community, and my relatives.

benali72

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Great article, here's another one from a different perspective
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2012, 03:57:04 am »
Very informative article. Thanks, John, for posting a link to it.

Here's another article that explores why ANY manufacturing is still in the US. It's another well done thoughtful article on the same topic --
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/01/making-it-in-america/8844/

expat

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Re: Sobering NYT Story about Apple and China and jobs
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2012, 04:56:33 am »
Quote
Apple had redesigned the iPhone’s screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight.

A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames.
Damn, that's spooky. No wonder we can't compete. Were they given a blue pill as well?

Should we be trying to compete with that? (see my Quote of the Day for today).



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