Illiteracy on the march...

[The Gorn]

Kids now talk among themselves about "Getting a Facebook."

Not "Joining Facebook." Getting A Facebook.

It just clashes so much in my brain.

[TRexx]

I recently heard a kid say "now that I have a laptop I can get Facebooked".

Remember, there is no noun that cannot be verbed.   

[TechTalk]

Well, having the ability to write well and knowing how to use proper grammar appears to be a problem for our college educated youth as well. 

I am mentioning this here because I think the problem that you appear to be bringing up cannot be blamed entirely on mobile media technology (i.e. lots of texting going on nowadays) or our high-school education system.

Here is a very long 2008 news article titled, "In the Basement of the Ivory Tower":
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/06/in-the-basement-of-the-ivory-tower/6810/

Here is ashort excerpt from that article: "My students take English 101 and English 102 not because they want to but because they must. Both colleges I teach at require that all students, no matter what their majors or career objectives, pass these two courses. For many of my students, this is difficult. Some of the young guys, the police-officers-to-be, have wonderfully open faces across which play their every passing emotion, and when we start reading “Araby” or “Barn Burning,” their boredom quickly becomes apparent. They fidget; they prop their heads on their arms; they yawn and sometimes appear to grimace in pain, as though they had been tasered. Their eyes implore: How could you do this to me?".

The following are just two books (I have not read either of them) which discusses some of the problems with our university system:
"How the University Works: Higher Education and the Low-Wage Nation"  ISBN: 0814799752
"Academically Adrift: Limited Learning on College Campuses" ISBN-10: 0226028569

[Walter Mitty]

I recently heard a kid say "now that I have a laptop I can get Facebooked".

Remember, there is no noun that cannot be verbed.

True.  The "parts of speech" was a useful feature in the grammatical analysis of languages like Latin and Greek. 

It was applied, more or less whole hog, to the gammatical analysis of English and its precursors.  It's not a terribly useful way to look at those languages.  To the extent that English has been influenced by Latin, "parts of speech"  makes sense.  But it's not a concept rooted in English.

[David Randolph]

"now I can get Facebooked".

Somehow, that sounds like something people used to do with a lot of beer.

[DG9]

No, that would be getting bookfaced... 

[Walter Mitty]

Tech Talk,

I think that "proper grammar"  has generally been a matter of class and standing rather than a matter of effective communication.  For about a century, "grammar teachers" in "grammar schools"  (aka elementary schools) taught children how they ought to speak and write, differentiated from the way they heard their parents and friends speaking and writing.

I think this is purely a matter of class, and class apsirations.  Lanugage evolves.  And it evolves in ways that people who uphold standards find extremely distatsteful.

Well, I have to confess that I buy into what the grammar people taught me.  When I see a website with dozens of non standard usages scattered all over the place,  I subconsciously lower my level of trust in that website.  For almost thirty years now,  I've tended to disparage people who spell the word "lose" with two "o"s instead of one.  But that's just my bias.

In addition to changing patterns of education, there's also a generation gap.  There are usages among today's teens and young twenties that are totally beyond my horizon.  There are those who would claim that these kids are simply lowering the level of literacy, and there are others who would say that I'm simply out of touch with the cool people. 

When I'm thinking clearly, I discount both of those attitudes.

 

[Carrie Cobol]

I never fuss about increasing illiteracy in young people, because I still clearly remember my first professional job:

I made sure in college that I learned proper English and "business writing" because everybody harped on me how you are judged by your communication skills.  Then I got my first job and was extremely shocked at the crap that the executives sent out in internal memos.  They couldn't spell to save their lives.  Letters that were sent to customers were perfect, which means that the secretaries were fixing the grammar and spelling.  And at the time, remember I was fresh out of school and these execs were older; 30 - 60 years old.  So I have trouble not rolling my eyes when older people complain about the younger's spelling!

[Walter Mitty]

"now I can get Facebooked".

Somehow, that sounds like something people used to do with a lot of beer.

I had to wait for the world wide web before I finally learned the lyrics to "Louie Louie".  All it ever meant to me in the sixties was that there was an open keg nearby.

 

[TechTalk]

I think that "proper grammar"  has generally been a matter of class and standing rather than a matter of effective communication...

Well, I am certainly not a "Grammar Nazi"!   

That said, imo, the importance of learning how to write clearly or well cannot be over emphasized.  Why?  Writing causes a person to slow down and think about what they are trying to communicate.   I wish I would have done more writing as a teenager.  I still struggle when I attempt to write anything that is more than a paragraph or two because in the last two decades I wasn't required to do a lot of formal writing.  At least not on a frequent basis.

[The Gorn]

The class significance of grammar: How about white kids who talk and write like they're ghetto and street?

White kids who pepper every sentence with "dat" sound like retards, and they seem to be wanna be thugs and gang bangers.

IMO this in particular is a deliberate effort to be "more colorful" and unique by posturing that you're lower class.

Also, I have witnessed (actually, we all have) blue collar people who deliberately use bad grammar. In my area that's a big thing. They take perverse pride in sounding lower class. The line from the movie Idiocracy where one of the dumb people tells the hero "you talk like a fag" is actually what I have experienced locally. In my area in certain socioethnic settings, if you use decent grammar you distance yourself from the locals. The locals know better, but they see good grammar defensively as a "rich person with a stick up his ass who thinks he's better than anyone else"  issue.

In my area specifically around downward mobile whites, poor grammar is a badge of honor and a point of pride.

So, no guys, don't hedge your opinion here for a second. Grammar is largely about class. Grammar is about sending a message about what class to which you believe that you belong, and to which class you would like to belong. There may be other messages in grammar usage, but these are at the top.

[Richardk]

What? Why would you want to position yourself into a lower class? Is this a game of sorts or a fad like saying 'blah, blah, NOT" to mean the opposite?

[The Gorn]

What? Why would you want to position yourself into a lower class? Is this a game of sorts or a fad like saying 'blah, blah, NOT" to mean the opposite?

No, it's not a game and it's not ironic. It's intended to be for real.

I think it's a defensive mechanism. Lower classes are considered dangerous. Higher class implies soft and weak. Lower class implies tougher and more streetwise.

If someone is a dead-ender with no good career or life prospects, it's basically what's left to give them a feeling of strength.

Look at the popularity of ghetto and thug culture. Surely sociologists have written about this extensively.

[David Randolph]

Humans aspire to strength and power. When we are young, we see that in terms of physical strength and numeric power. (See singing in unison, moving in lock step, size of gang, as well as individual physical strength and personal ability to fight and win.) When we get older, we see that in terms of economic power or political power. "Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac." -  Henry Kissinger

In many a poorer neighborhood, the largest display of strength or power is done by the criminal class. Thus, kids gravitate to it.

[Walter Mitty]

I think that "proper grammar"  has generally been a matter of class and standing rather than a matter of effective communication...

Well, I am certainly not a "Grammar Nazi"!   

That said, imo, the importance of learning how to write clearly or well cannot be over emphasized.  Why?  Writing causes a person to slow down and think about what they are trying to communicate.   I wish I would have done more writing as a teenager.  I still struggle when I attempt to write anything that is more than a paragraph or two because in the last two decades I wasn't required to do a lot of formal writing.  At least not on a frequent basis.

I agree with this, for the most part.  I'll add my two cents.

What I think forces people to slow down and think when they write is not so much grammar as style.  Unfortunately there is very little education in how to write with good style.  Even the compulsory English courses in college barely scratch the surface as far as teaching composition with style.

I recognize that good grammar is one element of good style.  But it's only one element.