Where in the world is Scott?

[Peter Gibbons]

I go very seldom to CoT but a few months ago 'Scott' aroused my interest by keeping us in suspense about his pending move to this 'unnamed' country. So this morning I did a quick search to see what happened and found this tread:

http://www.crazyontap.com/topic.php?TopicId=77160#692339

English competency was one issue in selecting a place. None of my previous sales and customer service staff were interested in attempting to emigrate from the US, so they are all gone. Their replacements here all speak english fluently. Yes I had to pay a premium to get technically capable people with excellent english, but it's not a problem. Salaries for these sorts of things are not all that different from the US. There is a slight accent they have but it's not extreme enough that any customers would not realize they are not talking to someone in the US.

This is not an Asian country. People from Asia usually have stronger accents.

The country I chose I will not yet mention because although I am officially a business here, as far as the US knows I am still there. As soon as the US nazis finds you have tried to escape, they can start to fuck with you. This country USED to be a sort of dictatorship decades ago, but it is no longer. Also, it's got great internet service, international mail services, and so forth.

He is looking for economic freedom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Freedom_of_the_World

And based on the fact that his second choice was Thailand - he wants to live in a low cost country.
( Which by the way makes me wonder about his judgement given the political climate there. )

He also mentioned that the country is trying to attract small foreign companies.

Bingo: It's Chile.

Which we mentioned here as one of the countries that is trying to attract US startups. So this maybe a good place for Scott - somebody that already has his own company.

I think the unique thing about Chile is that the country has experienced communist leaning government and military dictatorship during the past 50 years - so maybe people have finally come to their senses.

[The Gorn]

Following "Scott" is an exercise in supreme frustration. He is as anti-American as Denman/Horrorwitz on CoT but he is so completely effective at cloaking any circumstantial details about his lifestyle or his business that you'd think he worked in the military and was used to censoring soldier's letters.

My guess is that he has decided that his message board rant personality would kill business.

I think you're right and it is Chile, but the guy cloaks himself so completely that it's almost useless to try to infer anything meaningful from his posts.

[JavaMouse]

"Scott" is too good to spend 5 minutes of time cleaning his toilet, so I guess he's very keen on "freedom and individualism" for himself at the expense of the lower classes who can be paid slave wages to do that kind of work for him. He must be a real pill to work for.  No wonder his staff decided not to emigrate with him.  (In fact he sounds like a giant spoiled baby from my brief reading of his post.)

He may be right that the US is dead and buried, but given the huge income inequality in the states, I have no idea what his complaints are about.  We're rapidly going the way of South America.

[lorb]

Wherever his is, I hope he is tithing 10%.

</sarcasm>

[The Gorn]

^ lol.

[Peter Gibbons]

This was the title of the original message.

It's a good topic to discuss in this forum, however the original tread went down the toilet so to speak when "Scott" mentioned that "cleaning the toilet was not worth $1200 of his time."

I don't know if this character "Scott" is real. He was a prominent poster on JoS with a compelling story: Somebody that have bootstrapped software company in rural America and grown it to million dollars per year of revenues.

Going back to the original topic:

I certainly could cut my lawn and have done it for many years. There were a few years however when I was at home only on the weekend and cutting the lawn was the last thing I wanted to do so I outsourced that work. The person we hired could cut the lawn in 1/3 of the time it would take me since he was more skillful and had better equipment. So it was a win-win scenario for both of us.

Some people consider it a big waste to pay somebody to paint their home. I have never done this job - so I have zero skills in that area. A few years back I hired a guy to paint the windows and doors. He didn't speak very good English and he quoted me a good price. I payed him in cash what he asked and even bought him some sandwiches and drinks. He did a superb job and both parties were happy.

The next door neighbor asked the same guy to paint the outside of his house, didn't pay him a cent and then called the cops because he figured out that the guy didn't have work permit. This is what I call taking advantage of the 'lower classes'.

If a price for a service is freely negotiated we shouldn't talk about slave wages.

I have been very briefly on the other side:

I was once in a foreign country with very little money in my pocket. I managed to get this small job doing hard physical work for the equivalent of $5/hour. The food that I bought with that $25 next week tasted so good ... I still remember the woman that gave me this work and feel thankful. I never thought that she took advantage of me and I should have been paid at least $15/hour of something like this.


So this could have been a good tread ( here, not CoT ) if we didn't get down to the toilet level and "Scott" didn't use some incendiary language like:

You guys are so addicted to the life of a slave, it being the only reality you have ever known, that you can not imagine what it would be like to be free. Like crabs in a bucket, you seek to pull back the crab that escaped.

[Peter Gibbons]

Following "Scott" is an exercise in supreme frustration.

...

I think you're right and it is Chile, but the guy cloaks himself so completely that it's almost useless to try to infer anything meaningful from his posts.

Yes - there is not much info there. The guy is either paranoid, liar, both or he knows something that none of us know.

As far as I know - it's perfectly legal to open an office in another country and move some ( all ) of the work there.

It would have been interesting to read about the advantages and disadvantages of moving to a country with an emerging economy like Chile from an impartial person.
( That "Scott" obviously is not. )

[JavaMouse]

If a price for a service is freely negotiated we shouldn't talk about slave wages.

If a person is in desperate straits, and there's no real marketplace for their work because they are illegal, the amount of "freedom" that they have is arguable.

Someone crossing the border probably does so because they're getting a better deal economically than they can in their own country.  OK, but I personally 1) do not want to hire people here illegally and 2) do not want to take advantage of their situation.  In doing so, I also deny a legal citizen a good standard of living.  I see nothing wrong with paying someone to clean your toilet, mow your lawn, or what have you, at the market rate.

Of course, there are those who claim that only foreign workers will do these jobs. That has not been my experience: I know two elderly women who hire legal citizens to do odd jobs and housework. These people get paid about $20/hour.

[The Gorn]

So this could have been a good tread ( here, not CoT ) if we didn't get down to the toilet level and "Scott" didn't use some incendiary language like:

You guys are so addicted to the life of a slave, it being the only reality you have ever known, that you can not imagine what it would be like to be free. Like crabs in a bucket, you seek to pull back the crab that escaped.

I read the guy because he is very insightful.

You're saying his metaphor is incendiary. I think it's spot-on perfect. It's the same thing I talk about - blue collar envy and hate directed at anyone bettering themselves.

[Peter Gibbons]

Calling people slaves surely doesn't look like a productive way to engage people to debate an issue.

I don't envy or hate the guy. He does appear quite paranoid and self important. Why would the police follow him around?

He could have skipped the part about renouncing his US citizenship and just tell us something interesting about his life in Chile.

[Richardk]

When do you guys find the time to read all these other boards? Speed reading, casual glance, with a time limit - hoping to find a gem?

If "Scott" has "grown it to million dollars per year of revenues" then why all the complaining and needing to move to a cheaper country? It doesn't add up. How much more does he want?

Peter - your next door neighbor - what a winner. He's probably the same kind of guy that buys a GPS for a weekend trip and then returns it, saying he changed his mind.

[The Gorn]

I zero in on certain posters. Most of CoT is crap posted by crazies and the ultra-angry. But it seems to have inherited a little career mentoring purpose, somehow, because posts pop up there about career that used to appear on JoS pre-sanitization from real life humans.

[Richardk]

OK, but I personally 1) do not want to hire people here illegally and 2) do not want to take advantage of their situation.  In doing so, I also deny a legal citizen a good standard of living. 

Not necessarily true. The guy hiring the illegal is probably paying below par wages plus they can cheat them on hours, add "fees" or simply not pay them their last check if they find a better job. And the employer knows that the illegals options are limited. What are they going to do that doesn't also expose that they are illegal?

Also I'm not sure about the "good standard of living" for a legal citizen since I suspect that some of these jobs are bid out so low that they can't afford a real wage or at least the hiring party won't be making the same profit margin. Especially if the work is being bid out at full market rates but the employer hires a bunch of illegals at sub par wages and pockets the difference. Then you are clearly denying a legal citizen a good job.

[The Gorn]

Not necessarily true. The guy hiring the illegal is probably paying below par wages plus they can cheat them on hours, add "fees" or simply not pay them their last check if they find a better job. And the employer knows that the illegals options are limited. What are they going to do that doesn't also expose that they are illegal?

Also I'm not sure about the "good standard of living" for a legal citizen since I suspect that some of these jobs are bid out so low that they can't afford a real wage or at least the hiring party won't be making the same profit margin. Especially if the work is being bid out at full market rates but the employer hires a bunch of illegals at sub par wages and pockets the difference. Then you are clearly denying a legal citizen a good job.

The bottom line being:

Illegals are distorting our economy in the area of low end labor. And it's not just a matter of wage competition,  it's also the matter of imposing foreign culture on US citizens looking for work. Example, I have a family member who could really use a job who was told that he would not be considered to work in a hotel's laundry because the job requires Spanish skills. !@%*^%

And it's a law enforcement, border defense and national policy problem that should be solved, not pushed out into the economy in order to find an opportunistic solution that harms many and benefits a few.

[Peter Gibbons]

The guy hiring the illegal is probably paying below par wages.

In our case we paid the guy over $1000 for 3 days of work.

One of our neighbors who is retired observed the guy doing very thorough job for another neighbor. He hired him and then recommended him to my wife.

For us was mostly a matter of hiring somebody that will do a quality work. He may have been slightly cheaper that the local guys but his quality of work was much better. He was a true craftsman.

I figured that he may be working without permit when somebody dropped him in front of the house with the paint and his tools. He didn't even have a car.

I think he was a Greek who got a visitors visa and went to work to make a few thousand dollars during the summer before going home.

And no - I didn't ask to see his passport or work permit.

P.S. Speaking of the local guys couple of years ago 2 students knocked on the door and asked me if I had some paint job for them to do. At the time I just needed to have the deck painted - so I showed it to them and asked for a quote. They took a look a told me they will call me later with an estimate. Never heard from them - I guess the job was just too small for them.