Selling product vs selling services:

[lorb]

I'm starting to see it another way.

If I say that I can write a desktop program for them, solution, then that statement stands in itself, like a blank-slate.

If they say that desktop program means Winforms because "that is what they do, or that is what desktop programming is", then they can either hire me to do that if both are willing or they can accept that that is simply not my toolset.  You can continue to sell such a customer on whatever they say they want (a moon made of green-cheese), but you are not "their customer" at some point, at some point you are putting on a wig, taking hormones, and not doing what you are selling, you are doing what someone else should have sold to them.  It's not your customer(?)

The reason I state all this is because the word "morally" has crept into this thread.

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BUT the client HAS TO EXPECT ADVICE

The client has to tell you what they want, from the beginning, or probably wouldn't be having the conversation, so it's not really about advice there, they either want what you are "selling" or they don't.  Everyone is selling something, no getting around it, unless you are just another worker, but we all are that effectively, that is life for all beings period, no getting around it 100%.  But this thread is about moral-ground, where it stands.

[The Gorn]

I'm starting to see it another way.

If I say that I can write a desktop program for them, solution, then that statement stands in itself, like a blank-slate.

If they say that desktop program means Winforms because "that is what they do, or that is what desktop programming is", then they can either hire me to do that if both are willing or they can accept that that is simply not my toolset.  You can continue to sell such a customer on whatever they say they want (a moon made of green-cheese), but you are not "their customer" at some point, at some point you are putting on a wig, taking hormones, and not doing what you are selling, you are doing what someone else should have sold to them.  It's not your customer(?)

Just excellent.

You have keyed in on one aspect of being successful. As a provider, you avoid mismatched relationships in the first place.

Another way of putting it is: stupid people should get a room together. So should smart, effective people.

The grey area of this is exasperating, though. The client may SAY that they just want a solution. But they also want to meddle. They want a defined result, but they also demand to actively manage you or technical means that you choose in order to achieve it, even though they have not managed successfully before.

And they do not indicate up front that they intend to manage you.

This is actually the most common situation I've found. You start what appears and is alleged to be a well defined project, and you then encounter all of the cargo cult, preconception, local-ignorance-founded stuff that blocks your progress.

Once you are on-board you then find out that the client really does intend to second guess EVERY. SINGLE THING. That. You. Decide.