Negotiations in 2 hours with CIO...

[ResortDBA]

I cannot find the original post.  Basically it was regarding 'Enhanced Severance (ES)'.  This had some 'outs' for the company.  If I stayed I got the ES upon sale of the sub company by the parent company, unless the the buyer or seller offered a similar position of equal pay or higher and within 50 miles of my current office.

Now that sales are underway 3 of us have made the short list.  The short list is set to go into 1-on-1 discussions with the parent company CIO.

This is my approach, please comment you if think I am making an error or missing a bullet point or missing the objective altogether.

- Right now is the best market for my skills in the last 6-10 years ( obviously the reason for the ES ).
- Without pursuing anything I get phone calls on the way in to work regarding better paying jobs closer to my home.
- I need stability as I have a child to provide for as well as structured debt to my ex over the next few years, this is not a time to gamble for me
- This job/company is a sinking ship just a matter of time.
- Remaining here without guranteed upside could mean that I miss all the good local jobs by the time this thing is over


What I want:

- ES guaranteed after a fixed committment of time, no outs for the seller.
- ( asking for 1/2 up front would be nice but I doubt thats going to happen )
- An EXACT end date so that I can increase the chances of lining up new work without eating into severance too far.
- If the company offers work-from-home job say doing their oracle apps or something I will only consider the position if it does not eliminate the ES. ( maybe I should not mention this part. )


How am I doing ?  I dont negotiate very much.

[The Original Dinosaur]

It doesn't hurt to ask.

Try for the front money, the work-at-home option, etc.

The reason they are discussing ES is that they don't want you to bail out leaving a hole behind.  So use that for leverage.

A package that is subject to one-sided cancellation is called "bait".  Don't bite on that.

[ResortDBA]

OK, I will return it unsigned if it has any 'outs'.

Going to ask for double the current agreement with hard stop date.

[PoslerRabbit]

Focus on what you bring to the deal. Emphasize their need and explain why you are the best fit. Do not let them know of your needs such as your need for stability or the debt you have.

[ResortDBA]

It turned out to be a get-to-know-you and we are going to leave you better off tomorrow than today.  So they did not ask us what we wanted, instead they said an agreement will be coming that includes the current ES + stay bonus.  That stay bonus needs to look a lot like 6 mos of pay.

Of course it likely wont and then we have to think about saying the existing ES is not much improved by the addition so 'no thanks' and see if they want to discuss it further.

[ResortDBA]

I was just doing some yardwork and thinking again about your response:

Quote:Focus on what you bring to the deal. Emphasize their need and explain why you are the best fit. Do not let them know of your needs such as your need for stability or the debt you have.

Your absolutely correct - I need to speak to their needs fears and only bring up my justification of the desired financial incentive if they question my basis for coming up with that number.

[John Masterson]

ResortDBA,

If they ask you to prove you are worth a given number, can't you just calmly say that salary appears to be the market for a person with your proven ability?

That should be all you need to say.

I don't think you need to be drawn into having to justify your number or else they reject it. Seems like a tactic on their part.

You are asking for what you believe you are worth. End of story.

What does anyone else think?

[TRexx]

Quote:If they ask you to prove you are worth a given number, can't you just calmly say that salary appears to be the market for a person with your proven ability?

Exactly. Often a salary negotiator will try to suck you into justifying your value to the company. No matter what accomplishments you bring up, they can counter them with some arguement, valid or not, to diminish your value.

The only argument they can't counter is "They guy down the street is willing to pay me X". Of course I wouldn't use those exact words, and I'd be prepared to walk.  

And sometimes even if they agree to your worth, they just can't afford it. That's why A-Rod plays for the Yankees and not the Devil Rays.

[John Masterson]

Quote:The only argument they can't counter is "They guy down the street is willing to pay me X".

Yup.

If they press for a justification, you can just smile and say, "the market is what it is."

That should end the attempt at "proving" why you are worth $110,000 a year, or whatever it is.

[ResortDBA]

We have a 6 month ES to stay, now they are layering onto that a stay bonus to ensure we stick around, we are hoping it too is 6 months, that way when its over we can get a full year of exit money ( ES + stay bonus ) which I think is hard to argue comparitively like salaries.

[ResortDBA]

8 + 3 = 11 which is the 12 we whispered to upper mgmt minus 1.

Going to tighten up the loopholes and firm up dates, then if they agree to that - have an attorney check it.

[codger]

Will the stay bonus be paid in a lump sum, using the payroll? If so, the tax withheld will be astronomical. Better check it out. Unless it's okay with you that they withhold 50% on that final payment.

I learned this the hard way.

[ResortDBA]

I have been warned about that.  The breakdown is 3 mos stay bonus and 8 months.

I thought the bonus would have unusually high 'withholding' but that at tax time it would be roughly taxed at my normal tax rate.

[The Original Dinosaur]

Quote:I have been warned about that. The breakdown is 3 mos stay bonus and 8 months.

I thought the bonus would have unusually high 'withholding' but that at tax time it would be roughly taxed at my normal tax rate.

I think what codger was worried about was your getting bumped into a higher bracket.

Also, and I'm sure you can negotiate this with a reasonably intelligent payroll person, you can avoid the interest-free loan to the gummint by arranging for zero withholding on the bonus.  It's still W-2 wages subject to FICA and income tax withholding, but you ought to be able to avoid income tax withholding (but you may have to file a 1040-ES and pay estimated tax on it).  At the very least you can file a new W-4, with 14 exemptions -- under the reporting radar -- but you would need to make sure that your payroll department implements it prior to the bonus payout.

[ResortDBA]

I appreciate the feedback on this, we are going to stop the 1 on 1 negotiating and conduct a conference call together today to finalize what we need changed.

The funny thing is that due to my divorce and 4k per month payout I am already at W-2 Exemptions = 26.  Seemed spot on for last years taxes, hopefully the same this year and when this thing pays out it will be 2008, by then I will have dropped monthly payout to ex to 3k and likely exemptions closer to your figure.

Its good to know you agree that it all comes out in the wash and is taxed roughly at my normal tax rate, but witholding is what everyone is warning me about.