Long term consulting?

[DG9]

or they have gathered further proof of not finding any "qualified" applicants...  Welcome to the jungle. 

[TechTalk]

Hi Carrie Cobol,

Going by your nickname only -- I believe that you use to occasionally post on Joel's "now closed" discussion board.  While I never understood why so few full-timers and old mainframers never participated in online discussion boards such as this one, I am glad to see that you are doing so.

From reading your posts it sounds to me like you have need to do some research about contracting and how it works.  The main reason why this is important is because contracting has become the new trend/norm in how people get work.   If you already know about most of the contracting pitfalls and how to protect yourself from getting scr*wed then please ignore what I just wrote.

You wrote, "But it's a long term contracting gig, not FTW, and with no specified end date..... Should I call him again or forget about it and consider myself discarded? "

My advice is to log this event and move on with your job search.  While there is always the possibility that this recruiter will call you again sometime in the future you should not wait or expect for this to happen. 

Personally, I would not attempt to call him/her again.  Doing so simply makes you "appear" to be desperate and this recruiter may use this against you in the future.  The thing you always need to remember when dealing with staffing firms is that you are dealing with a sales person/company.  Never believe what they say to you in a conversation -- only believe what they actually put on paper.

Good luck with your job search and if you have the time keep posting here....

[The Gorn]

TechTalk, GREAT catch with the reference to a JoS poster. I forgot about most of the regulars there except "Bella."

And welcome to the board.

The main reason why this is important is because contracting has become the new trend/norm in how people get work.

The present form of contracting as practiced in IT in most instances is more like "temping" than traditional contracting. All of the pressures, mind games and degradation of the FTE role without higher pay. Sad to say.

[benali72]

Carrie Cobol ....

could I add something to what's been said above?   Everyone on this thread has done a good job pointing out the many disadvantages to working in the manner you are considering (no paid vacation, no benefits, etc). 

In compensation for these downsides, you would expect to be paid more.   As an hourly rate I'd say two times the hourly rate of an FTE doing the same job at that company is customary, common, and generally considered reasonable.

Example -- so someone at that company is making $60,000 / year doing that job, that is $30 per hour. You would expect $60 per hour as reasonable, since you get no benefits of any kind.  With this approach and income expectation you can make a reasonable career out of this manner of consulting.   (You'll be able to pay for your own benefits & vacation, cover the risk of sudden termination, etc).

If for some reason they are paying the same as they would per hour for the FTE (and saving on the benefits too), then their goal in this situation is simply to save on labor costs.  In this situation it is normally more desirable to be an FTE.  You can't make a very good career of this kind of consulting because you won't have enough extra $$ to pay for your own benefits (unpaid vacation, health insurance, etc).

Hope this helps. 

 

[Richardk]

And sadly many think they can get away with paying you at the same rate or below that of their FTE's.

In this economy unless you're a specialist, I'm seeing something closer to 1.5 X rather than 2 X but again it varies greatly with skill set, company size and location.

The upside has always been more money but some of that goes towards providing the very benefits that you don't get.

[The Gorn]

In compensation for these downsides, you would expect to be paid more.   As an hourly rate I'd say two times the hourly rate of an FTE doing the same job at that company is customary, common, and generally considered reasonable.

Example -- so someone at that company is making $60,000 / year doing that job, that is $30 per hour. You would expect $60 per hour as reasonable, since you get no benefits of any kind.  With this approach and income expectation you can make a reasonable career out of this manner of consulting.   (You'll be able to pay for your own benefits & vacation, cover the risk of sudden termination, etc).

If for some reason they are paying the same as they would per hour for the FTE (and saving on the benefits too), then their goal in this situation is simply to save on labor costs. 

The first situation cited - payment at 2x the hourly rate of a comparable FTE - is a standard contractor rate. You can do OK if you can collect this kind of rate consistently.

The second situation cited - payment as a contractor at the same rate of hourly pay as an FTE - is really temping.

Temps are notoriously low paid. And they are insulted regularly in business culture. Temping is part of an attitude that a certain individual is not good enough to be hired as an FTE so they are paid through a labor agency as a temp.

Contracting is to earn a real living. Temping is for survival.

There's also kind of a mental readiness component to contracting, too. It's the war between middle class humility and what you ACTUALLY need in order to earn a living.

The rate differential given above (also stated sometimes as 1/1000 of your target yearly income) is the bare minimum that you should accept as a contractor.

This is to work as a surrogate employee but be paid as a contractor. To not have books written by you, inventions, patents, or some huge landslide of industry accolades.  This is to be an ordinary Joe (or Jane) worker who happens to be a contractor.

2 times the normal hourly pay of a FTE worker. No less.

Rates appreciably above that level are for highly specialized developers in particular niches.

You have to be comfortable asking these rates. NOT feel that they are "too high." Clients will try to chisel your rates.

[Carrie Cobol]

Yep, that was me on the JOS site.  Just before it closed, somebody posted a url to this forum and I came on over.  I wasn't able to find this place otherwise, which is why I wasn't here long ago.  I definitely fit into the age/experience demographic here more than JOS.   

And you're right, I've never really contracted, although I have considered it.  In my job search so far, I'm finding that W2 FTE jobs are becoming few and far between and more IT jobs are short term contracts.  So... here we are.  Going to end up that way, I think, whether I like it or not.  However, I have seen quite a few posted openings where you work through a staffing agency and they do offer some benefits:  medical, dental, 401K.  They aren't the deluxe packages by any means.  But still better than having to shop my own medical insurance and such. 

[Richardk]

Staffing agencies are terrible at giving you a good rate. Often on par with FTE less the benefits. And when they do offer benefits, I'd suggest you find your own. They often have weird rules and aren't that good anyway.

Being a contractor through a "consulting agency" will look more 'official' and often get you a better rate. It's hit or miss on benefits but I think it's mostly there to make you feel good, like a FTE of the agency, instead of providing you any real value. Also these places like 'big' clients where they can supply several "consultants / contractors" which often means that the client wants a discount and thus you still miss the 2x rate.

Goddard is right with 2x being your minimum rate but I'm seeing a lot of downward pressure from clients that don't understand contracting versus temping not to even mention consulting. Plus with H1B's coming in at dirt cheap rates, it just adds to the confusion.

You can start with contracting but you need to differentiate yourself as the expert in something otherwise you'll quickly become a temp, with your rate being a race to the bottom.