Author Topic: I'm not depressed enough this morning so I revisited the September ageism thread  (Read 1353 times)

I D Shukhov

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Which turned into advice-giving about checking off your inner Hispanic/Black/American Indian self on the ethnicity section on job applications.

For that matter, why not transgender?  Are they going to check?  I suppose you'd have to provide medical proof.  But maybe if you wore makeup and a wig (in the case of guys) they wouldn't ask for proof.

http://www.computerconsultantsforum.com/forum/all-consulting-biz-and-career-discussion/extreme-example-of-age-discrimination/

I still don't see how it helps to be an older Hispanic/Black/American Indian/transgender job candidate though.   I think the older part overrides everything else.


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Code Refugee

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Couldn't you identify as a younger person? Put down you're 28 or so, whatever age you really feel like you are inside. If they challenge it, that's wrong since they're assuming your age.

"This says you're 28, is that correct? You have grey hair."

"I'm sorry, but you can't just assume my age like that. As far as my hair, you are legally not allowed to ask questions about medical issues."

I D Shukhov

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Couldn't you identify as a younger person? Put down you're 28 or so, whatever age you really feel like you are inside. If they challenge it, that's wrong since they're assuming your age.

"This says you're 28, is that correct? You have grey hair."

"I'm sorry, but you can't just assume my age like that. As far as my hair, you are legally not allowed to ask questions about medical issues."

I guess... I could just tell the interviewer I look old for my age.  Really old.
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The Gorn

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Man, you are depressed, and from all accounts your career was better than mine up until you were forcibly retired from the last position.

Two things:

1) The modern age provides infinitely more opportunity to reframe your identity and re-invent yourself (I'm not talking about the politics of denying biological certainty like Code Refugee's ideas in this thread  >:D ). Partly it's been a cultural change in mass society and partly it's teh intertubes. If this community feels like a dead end for you in some respects, you should seek out other birds of a feather where your ideas are honored and your aspirations fit more comfortably. I'm not saying get lost but merely pointing out that we have a shallow puddle here on CCF floating on an ocean.

2) Secondly, the thread about the book I started is here: http://www.computerconsultantsforum.com/forum/about-the-community/(book-study)-'choose-yourself'-by-james-altucher/  The guy is like a broken record player after awhile but he gave me an initial shot of renewed enthusiasm for my life.
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Code Refugee

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I agree with what you're saying and it makes sense.

But thinking about this thread, although I was joking around when I posted earlier, I'm now thinking of it seriously.

There's nothing stopping from dying hair to look younger, or just shaving it off completely. And for the wrinkles there's Retinol cream. I think I'm going to pick up some over the counter stuff this afternoon and try it. (http://www.health.com/beauty/best-retinol-cream) I guess I'll get that and some beard cream.

I think also it actually is illegal in the US to ask for birthdate or age before a hiring decision is made.

I'm going to see if I can look younger, and then lie about my age, and see if I can get a better gig. That's my new year's resolution. Wish me luck.

The Gorn

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Good luck, Code Refugee, man. Keep us posted on how it goes for you.

Those are great ideas.

I believe the main issue is bonding with the culture of whatever place you're looking to get hired on at.  That's probably more a matter of understanding your peer's mindset and the priorities of the management than appearance alone.

I think this guy is really good at communicating higher level concepts of living in the real world, to young programmers: https://simpleprogrammer.com/

He has a channel on Youtube that's worth subscribing to just to see occasional interesting topics. He covers everything from what niche Java library to learn, to how to meet girls for aspie geeks.

I REALLY wish there were an analog of SimpleProgrammer for mid-life and over the hill developers. Maybe that should be my forte' or calling.

I still think the book "Choose Yourself" could be a good starting point for I D (I D, if you've read it already, please say so and tell me what you thought.)

The problem I had in life was believing that almost nothing good was accessible to me because "I'm me" and I was not given permission or authorization to reap it from someone more connected, cooler or better than me. Now I know better. This book helps address that and possibly provides a cure.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 11:11:09 AM by The Gorn »
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Code Refugee

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Well I got the skin wrinkle cream stuff.

I ran the hair ideas past my girlfriend and she explained what is involved in darkening my gray hair properly. Apparently dyes don't work on gray, so you have to pre-treat, some sort of primer sort of thing. There's lots of chemicals. To look good you either are constantly dying it, and messing up the tub, or you need to go into the salon constantly. All sorts of process involved and I don't have time for that. We can put a man on the moon, but 50 years later we can't dye hair without it being a hassle.

So I got some new razors instead, for my head. Just going to go with the full bald thing.

I may have to get some gold chains as well and wear my shirt unbuttoned like that Brice guy used to talk about.

unix

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Oster 76 and some 000000 blades work for me cheaper and more cost-effective. I even started shaving with it, since it's down to 0.1mm blade.
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Code Refugee

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00000
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2017, 05:51:40 PM »
Wow, thanks, I didn't know there even was a size 00000.

https://www.amazon.com/Oster-Professional-76918-006-Replacement-Clipper/dp/B0012KT6JS/

I have a different brand of clipper, but it might be blade compatible. I'll look into this.

unix

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You are right. Oster makes as low as 00000 (5 0s) - you have to get an aftermarket brand to get 000000 of course I forgot which one. Saves you a lot of argentum over the years.
Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.

I D Shukhov

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1) The modern age provides infinitely more opportunity to reframe your identity and re-invent yourself (I'm not talking about the politics of denying biological certainty like Code Refugee's ideas in this thread  >:D ). Partly it's been a cultural change in mass society and partly it's teh intertubes.

I agree.   I'm not really spending all my time being depressed about ageism and crawling into a hole.   There are a lot of opportunities outside of traditional companies with traditional HR departments (I believe) if one pursues them with diligence.

Intertubes?  You mean the WWW and the amount of free information?

Quote
2) Secondly, the thread about the book I started is here: http://www.computerconsultantsforum.com/forum/about-the-community/(book-study)-'choose-yourself'-by-james-altucher/  The guy is like a broken record player after awhile but he gave me an initial shot of renewed enthusiasm for my life.

I did buy Choose Yourself on Kindle.   As well as a couple of other books of this ilk which I can recommend.

Designing Your Life: How to Build a Well-Lived, Joyful Life
Own Your Future: How to Think Like an Entrepreneur and Thrive in an Unpredictable Economy


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JoFrance

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Well I got the skin wrinkle cream stuff.

I ran the hair ideas past my girlfriend and she explained what is involved in darkening my gray hair properly. Apparently dyes don't work on gray, so you have to pre-treat, some sort of primer sort of thing. There's lots of chemicals. To look good you either are constantly dying it, and messing up the tub, or you need to go into the salon constantly. All sorts of process involved and I don't have time for that. We can put a man on the moon, but 50 years later we can't dye hair without it being a hassle.

So I got some new razors instead, for my head. Just going to go with the full bald thing.

I may have to get some gold chains as well and wear my shirt unbuttoned like that Brice guy used to talk about.

Your girlfriend is right about gray hair, CR.  Its hard to cover, but doable if you use a two-step process.  My husband was a hairdresser once and I've watched him for years.  Basically he uses some peroxide mixed with the color, but he uses professional color.  Clairol Graybusters works well.  You don't need a license to buy it.  I've been using it for years.  I have shoulder-length hair and a lot of gray.

Its best to get your hair done by a professional, at least initially.  Its a PITA, I know, but you can get it to the point where you only have to do the roots, which isn't bad.  My husband dyes his side burns and eyebrows.  He lies about his age, 64, and people believe he's in his 50's.  Maybe HR knows the truth, but so far his strategy works.

My brother shaves his head.  That's a PITA too.

JoFrance

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Wrinkles are inevitable, but Retina, a prescription Retinol, can get rid of a lot of stuff.  I've used it on and off for years.  Retinol creams are good, but the prescription stuff it stronger.  You can get rid of a lot of lines in a couple of months with it.  OTC creams take longer but are also good.

I know how you feel ID.  I have no place in today's job market at all in the computer world and honestly, I wouldn't want to go back to it.  Network administration is high stress.  I don't need that.  I don't know where to go from here, really.

Ageism is alive and well in our society and no one talks about it.  Our society doesn't care about old people, it discards them, IMO.  Its a real wake-up call.  You can try your best to remain relevant, but the opportunities are few and far between.

I D Shukhov

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I know how you feel ID.  I have no place in today's job market at all in the computer world and honestly, I wouldn't want to go back to it.  Network administration is high stress.  I don't need that.  I don't know where to go from here, really.

Same here regarding going back to work in the corporate world.  I don't have anything against IT, just doing it in big software engineering shops.  Throughout much of my career I was having 2 drinks when I got home at night to destress.  Haven't had the slightest desire to drink after leaving the workforce.

Quote
Ageism is alive and well in our society and no one talks about it.  Our society doesn't care about old people, it discards them, IMO.  Its a real wake-up call.  You can try your best to remain relevant, but the opportunities are few and far between.
I think there are going to be big problems down the road for our society.  People are living longer, Social Security is not going to keep up with inflation and most people don't have pensions.  By all accounts most people don't have enough savings to last for the extended lifespan that modern medicine has given us.  Investing is tricky and requires making certain bets that could easily go wrong. So how we get income might be like the old days where you work until you die, except where do you work in your 70's, 80's and maybe even 90's?




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Code Refugee

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Basically he uses some peroxide mixed with the color, but he uses professional color.  Clairol Graybusters works well.  You don't need a license to buy it.  I've been using it for years.

Thanks for this advice, I'll look for some of that and might try it if I can work up the courage.