Author Topic: Feedback on career direction  (Read 392 times)

Slinky

  • Trusted Member
  • Guru
  • ******
  • Posts: 377
  • Gold Plated Slinky
    • View Profile
Feedback on career direction
« on: March 19, 2010, 03:04:34 pm »
I got feedback from the last interviews that I was waiting on. The main feedback has been "we hired somebody else." I got quite a few second interviews (for my regional area), so I'm guessing that I need to update my skills. I already knew that. My other constraint is that my wife refuses to move, but she's ok if our standard of living has to go down, meaning that I take some non-IS work.

My Background

I have a .NET background. I despise web development, as I had bad experiences with 3 web development shops in a row. I am fairly good with SQL Server, but not quite dba level. I have an Associate's degree.

Current Plan

Contracting has always been my safety net, unfortunately there are even less contract work than FTE positions.  I pass the SQL Server interview questions easily, so that's taken care of. I don't have experience in the two technologies, outside of web stuff, that employers are looking at. These are WPF and WCF. Since I don't have a Bachelor's, I thought that the quickest way to ramp up is through certifications. As much as I hate them, I don't see another alternative than to get certified in the stuff that I'm lacking.  I was given a one month severance, so I have some money that I can use to get certified.

So my plan is to take the following exams:

Exam 70-536 - Microsoft .NET Framework - Application Development Foundation (required for all certifications that I want)
Exam 70-502 - Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5, Windows Presentation Foundation Application Development
Exam 70-503 - Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5, Windows Communication Foundation Application Development

These 3 exams will get me:

Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist  (MCTS) -  Windows Presentation Foundation
Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist  (MCTS) -  Windows Communication Foundation

My learning style is visual. I researched online video, and settled on PluralSight. I'm thinking of getting the one year subscription, as that allows me to download video to my hard drives.

Before I jump in and do this, I wanted to get comments and opinions from the vast pool of experience here.  :)

The Gorn

  • Your agonizer, please. And be sure to keep the batteries charged!
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 13730
  • Gornix user
    • View Profile
If it helps any...
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2010, 07:00:38 pm »
College degree seems to mean almost nothing to most employers who hire software developers. A bachelor's used to be a credential that permitted you to be considered for professional employment. Today employers want buzzwords, unless you can sell them on domain experience (similar problems, similar business line, etc)
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.


Peter Gibbons

  • Guest
Re: Feedback on career direction
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2010, 08:01:14 am »
Hi Slinky,


I am working in a different area of the world using different technology stack and have virtually given up on the idea of finding FTE.

So please take the following advice/rant with a grain of salt.  It's really some thoughts about what I should do next after the project I am working on is finished.

I don't have ANY certifications and don't plan on getting one in the future. My degree is NOT in computer science.
If a company asks me about certifications or wants me to take written test - I just move on.


In your case getting certified probably makes sense. I know almost nothing about WPF and WCF - so no comment on them.
I think you have mentioned LINQ in the past and I know you are SQL Server expert - so here is an idea:

How about getting NHibernate certification?

I don't know if NHibernate is as popular as Hibernate is in the Java world?
I do know though that some consultants are making good money with their knowledge of Hibernate.

Maybe having a NHibernate certification will make you stand out in the crowd and give you the edge?
Plus NHibernate is in the area you want to be - close to the database.

Another idea - getting a certification ( if such thing exist ? ) or course in database design.
I am currently improving my knowledge in this area by working on a real side project.

Database design is an area that is resistant to all the fashion trends that change the development world so quickly.
On the other side - there are very few jobs out there where knowing how to design database properly is a requirement.

The idea is to have something on your resume that will make  you stand out.


« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 08:51:47 am by Peter Gibbons »

TRexx

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 4455
    • View Profile
Re: If it helps any...
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2010, 09:51:57 am »
College degree seems to mean almost nothing to most employers who hire software developers. A bachelor's used to be a credential that permitted you to be considered for professional employment. Today employers want buzzwords, unless you can sell them on domain experience (similar problems, similar business line, etc)

That may be true when you finally get to the hiring manager, but it's been my experience that you can't get past the HR gate keeper (carbon or silicon based)  without a degree.  It often doesn't matter what field it's in, but unless you have that BS (or BA) after your name, you're resume is going straight to the shredder.

pxsant

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise Sage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on career direction
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2010, 12:01:49 pm »
"can't get past the HR gate keeper (carbon or silicon based)  without a degree"

Exactly my experience.  The hiring manager may not care whether you have a degree or not but if you can't get past HR,  the HM will never know you exist.  Over the past 15 years or so HR has gained extreme power in most large corporations to the detriment of the corporation.

The Gorn

  • Your agonizer, please. And be sure to keep the batteries charged!
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 13730
  • Gornix user
    • View Profile
Does anyone think that...
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2010, 12:50:30 pm »
Slinky's career interests would be better served by trying to identify domain knowledge to sell rather than adding to the technical stack?

Yeah, I am sounding like a BoS denizen, aren't I.  :P

I'm just saying - and I do not want to take any momentum away from Slinky - that Microsoft technologies (WPF and WCF) especially are a moving target.  All the cool kids are getting certifications, but I wonder if that actually helps land projects. Maybe it really does.

When I say "domain" knowledge I am not limiting that idea to business domains. I mean specific technical domains that Slinky could plausibly "own". Like: web site architecture; database tuning; some kind of cross platform integration; etc. I have no idea, I'm just inventing niches.

The most successful senior technical employees and consultants seem to have a "technical domain" of mastery that they are comfortable working in, and they don't go for the product or platform branding.

And I know you're looking for a FTE job, not to climb the mountain of consulting specifically. It's just worth thinking about whether you could reframe your resume and your search in terms of higher level goals and objects than Microsoft tools.
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.


jbucks

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 625
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on career direction
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2010, 02:47:57 pm »
I would say for you to get the "cert" the quickest & cheapest way possible.    Does the University of "pick a foreign country" have a remote learning course you could get a Bachelor's in a couple of weeks?  Years back, wasn't there a company in FL that advertised on tha back of matchbooks?   And, yes, I *AM* being serious.  You are in a direct competition with frauds & liars.  All that matters is that you get a Degree from any (somewhat) accredited school.  I agree that the gatekeepers will use any excuse to keep you OUT of the running for jobs (again, you are in direct competition with frauds & liars).

Jim

Origisaurus

  • Wise Sage
  • Wise Sage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1588
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on career direction
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2010, 03:28:03 pm »
In my day, there were no certs.  Just master's degrees.  MS in your undergraduate area, such as engineering or math or some hard science, and MBA in particular. 

Master's in a soft science?  My longtime main squeeze, the Norska Flicka, learned that a MFA was so useless as to be a hindrance in her chosen area, industrial photography.  May have been helpful if she wanted to teach Art in a community college for just slightly more than waitressing.

U of Mich has an outstanding MBA program, fully supported by Big Auto.  About 2/3 of the way through at age 45 or so, I realized that even if I had the ticket, I would be competing with new MBAs in their 20s or the bright engineers in their 30s who sat in class beside me.   So I made a business decision that I had got as much content as I could handle, and the ticket wasn't worth the effort.

Slinky, I don't know how this will guide your thinking.  I just wanted to give you my 2ยข worth.
Avatar is from the cover of the November 2007 National Geographic.  Fair use is assumed.

Aussie

  • Guest
Prestigious Degrees
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2010, 03:29:52 pm »
"can't get past the HR gate keeper (carbon or silicon based)  without a degree"




Peter Gibbons

  • Guest
Re: Feedback on career direction
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2010, 05:37:06 pm »
"And, yes, I *AM* being serious.  You are in a direct competition with frauds & liars."

This is a bad advice.

Even if some people are doing this it doesn't mean you, me or Slinky can do it.

Getting the cheapest degree is one thing - getting one that requires "two weeks of study" is something quite different ..


Slinky

  • Trusted Member
  • Guru
  • ******
  • Posts: 377
  • Gold Plated Slinky
    • View Profile
Re: Does anyone think that...
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2010, 09:15:14 am »
Slinky's career interests would be better served by trying to identify domain knowledge to sell rather than adding to the technical stack?

That's the long term goal.

I'm just saying - and I do not want to take any momentum away from Slinky - that Microsoft technologies (WPF and WCF) especially are a moving target.  All the cool kids are getting certifications, but I wonder if that actually helps land projects. Maybe it really does.

The juiciest jobs and contracts have both, at least in my region. The certification is just a short term strategy to get me something so that I can generate income.

When I say "domain" knowledge I am not limiting that idea to business domains. I mean specific technical domains that Slinky could plausibly "own". Like: web site architecture; database tuning; some kind of cross platform integration; etc. I have no idea, I'm just inventing niches.

The most successful senior technical employees and consultants seem to have a "technical domain" of mastery that they are comfortable working in, and they don't go for the product or platform branding.

That's what I've been trying to do, but without much success. It's looking more and more like serving a specific niche is the way for longevity. I'm past the prime age for IS, at least in the FTE world. Many HR and manager people look at me suspiciously since I don't have any management experience at my age. This really sucks, but that's the reality of this industry.

I'm finding that the people holding the purse strings are really cutting hard on pay. My previous pay rate was around $40/hr / $80K/year. I'm finding that most jobs don't want to pay more than $55K a year. That's a large haircut!  :-\  At least my wife has a decent job, so we are not near desperate. I still have a couple months before things get bad.

The Gorn

  • Your agonizer, please. And be sure to keep the batteries charged!
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 13730
  • Gornix user
    • View Profile
Re: Does anyone think that...
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2010, 10:33:53 am »
When I say "domain" knowledge I am not limiting that idea to business domains. I mean specific technical domains that Slinky could plausibly "own". Like: web site architecture; database tuning; some kind of cross platform integration; etc. I have no idea, I'm just inventing niches.

The most successful senior technical employees and consultants seem to have a "technical domain" of mastery that they are comfortable working in, and they don't go for the product or platform branding.

That's what I've been trying to do, but without much success. It's looking more and more like serving a specific niche is the way for longevity. I'm past the prime age for IS, at least in the FTE world. Many HR and manager people look at me suspiciously since I don't have any management experience at my age. This really sucks, but that's the reality of this industry.

I'm in the same camp, since I also don't have a management level track record - it is all development and solo contribution.

Your responses concern me for the following reason (and I'm not going out of my way to nit pick.) When I've narrowed my focus and what I said about my abilities to single languages or tools, those have been the least happy times in my career. Those are the periods when employers and clients have respected what I do the least and seem to marginalize me the most as a bit player.

I don't think this is a function of age in the way you're saying. When you have a lot of experience it is usually cross-platform and cross-domain experience. You become *less* interesting as a candidate who can slam out specialized code quickly and more interesting as a candidate who can pull together an entire system - where the value is really created.

I wouldn't even know where to start if some employer was holding out for a dedicated tools jockey. In the past it ran me ragged to "comply" with a bunch of narrow pinheaded needs.

Anyway, I know it's gotta be "whatever works".

It sounds like what you are saying (in a way) is that you're finding a lot more "standard" developer level opportunities that are very tool-specific and tools driven, than "senior level" opportunities where you build things at a higher level and do system planning and integration.  That lower level opportunity appears to be what you are targeting - not the senior positions, which are far less in number.

Is that basically right?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 10:50:50 am by G0ddard B0lt »
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.


Origisaurus

  • Wise Sage
  • Wise Sage
  • *****
  • Posts: 1588
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on career direction
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2010, 11:08:26 am »
It seems to me that Slinky and GB are focusing, like good tekkies, on content rather than presentation.

Example: "I create data models using IDEF1X" (tech talk) versus "I make sure your finished database is complete and functional" (manager talk).

Which explains how tekkies get screwed over.  And don't get no respect, to coin a phrase.
Avatar is from the cover of the November 2007 National Geographic.  Fair use is assumed.

The Gorn

  • Your agonizer, please. And be sure to keep the batteries charged!
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 13730
  • Gornix user
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on career direction
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2010, 11:14:48 am »
It seems to me that Slinky and GB are focusing, like good tekkies, on content rather than presentation.

Example: "I create data models using IDEF1X" (tech talk) versus "I make sure your finished database is complete and functional" (manager talk).

Which explains how tekkies get screwed over.  And don't get no respect, to coin a phrase.

That's exactly what I am advocating. Staying out of the mud of competing with one trick ponies. A senior techie shouldn't be associating himself with the n00bs even indirectly.

The best way to do this is to ask the right people what they need to have happen at an overall level.

But I think Slinky recognizes this. Again, he seems to be saying that there just aren't any senior jobs out there.

Of course, the questions you ask do a lot to steer the conversation either upward or downward.
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.


The Gorn

  • Your agonizer, please. And be sure to keep the batteries charged!
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 13730
  • Gornix user
    • View Profile
You're probably wrong here. Pure management talk may be the wrong tact. Unless you have an audience with the executive level, and sometimes even then, it is almost ALWAYS the wrong approach.

Example: "I create data models using IDEF1X" (tech talk) versus "I make sure your finished database is complete and functional" (manager talk).

Neither Slinky nor I are looking for Jerry Weinberg level situations where you diagnose and repair broad project direction problems.

In order to get anywhere *near* hiring managers, you HAVE to say something about your expertise with the tool chain that they want to use.

It's QUITE rare that not even a casual commitment has been made to certain technology.

And you cement your reputation with a new prospect by appearing to understand the ins and outs of that technology.

The hiring party is already "general". They NEED and WANT "specific". It's reassurance that the person can deliver.

However, the gist of what you are saying is correct. A garden variety techie is obvious about wanting the chance to flex his technical muscle. The higher paid senior type will talk "whys", planning, strategy, how much money they have to spend, market windows, etc.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 11:30:37 am by G0ddard B0lt »
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.



Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf