Author Topic: Code-writing 'academy' aims to bring computer programming to the masses  (Read 201 times)

ilconsiglliere

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http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/01/27/campaigns-enlist-in-code-writing-academy-to-reach-voters-online/?cmpid=cmty_email_Gigya_Code-writing_%27academy%27_aims_to_bring_computer_programming_to_the_masses#content

I wasnt aware that there was such a shortage of computer programmers anywhere except in the media. I guess they havent been to any of the companies I have been interviewing with.

vicorjh

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Re: Code-writing 'academy' aims to bring computer programming to the masses
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2012, 05:21:46 pm »
Industry wants to make a commodity out of the field. The cost for an experienced programmer is still  too high for them. The CEO to professional programmer salary ratio must be > 10 otherwise it's just not fair.

This means we are going to get a whole lot of new "experts" out there.

And I get to go on technical interviews only to be grilled with questions for which they claim there is only one right answer. Their answer.


The Gorn

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The Market Demand for Truly "Experienced" Programmers...
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2012, 07:41:00 pm »
...Is just not there.

The fact is that a lot more businesses need the services of someone who understands "how to program" - but for extremely pedestrian purposes, such as fiddling a web page, or piping data from one application to another - and this is at the very upper end of the skill range.

An "experienced programmer" who gets, understands or can use: version control, common in-memory data structures, storage in general (b-trees, single and doubly linked lists, arrays, hash tables, graphs) and what is a good scheme for specific classes of problems; who can write and organize a fairly large (5000 line+) application from scratch - a person with that profile is just not necessary, even at a lot of tech companies.

Pay ranges and demand patterns, I think, reflect this reality which has emerged. This is truly the end game of object oriented programming and object based and message based architectures being pervasive at all levels of IT, from single user desktop PCs to enterprise based systems for businesses.

I used to believe that integration of heterogeneous systems was the next area of golden opportunity in IT. Was I ever wrong! The fact is that programming interfaces have become so simple that the effort to integrate multi-vendor, multi-platform applications is lower than it has probably ever been in the history of IT. (I mean the widespread prevalence of things like XML and other open web and data communication standards.)

I also think this model explains why job hunts for experienced people in this industry have become so hard, so protracted, and so frustrating. Every job opening that could have a simple chance of utilizing someone with an experience level as found on this board is a traffic jam - because that upper end demand pattern has collapsed.

The employers then interpret this message as "talent is cheap", start snickering at people that are 10x the men and women that their own people will ever be, and everything you know and can do has already been devalued by the employer before you even get there.

The end game of all of that groundwork, which fueled the prosperity of many of us in the 90s and early 2000s, is today's state of affairs: it's a tech workplace, but 98%+ what is considered tech can really be done by a smart teenager. No college degree or experience required.

I think it's this phenomenon and not even so much H1Bs nor simple agism as explanations of the weakness in hiring "truly experienced" programmers. There may be very few of us greybeards, statistically speaking, but the number of really high end jobs that could use us is truly microscopic.

To work on really hard programming problems today, you must go and find them yourself.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 07:53:04 pm by The Gorn »
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I D Shukhov

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Re: Code-writing 'academy' aims to bring computer programming to the masses
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2012, 08:45:59 pm »
Traditionally, most of the total cost of software systems has been maintenance.   This isn't something that really gets taught.  More than anything else it takes a willingness to endure a lot of frustration and being happy with little successes.

I'm currently working on a project where over 50% of the original developers quit.  I guess there will always be a need to keep systems running.   
Anything that won't sell, I don't want to invent.  Its sale is proof of utility, and utility is success. – Edison

The Gorn

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Re: Code-writing 'academy' aims to bring computer programming to the masses
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2012, 08:57:01 pm »
Traditionally, most of the total cost of software systems has been maintenance.   This isn't something that really gets taught.  More than anything else it takes a willingness to endure a lot of frustration and being happy with little successes.

I'm currently working on a project where over 50% of the original developers quit.  I guess there will always be a need to keep systems running.

Going forward I see "maintenance" more like this:

Business gets dissatisfied with their current software, wants to punt it. They need a whiz kid for a few weeks who can migrate the data to a new system. That's "maintenance" a la 2012, maintaining the data, the program/software is expendable.

I believe this industry is very effective at driving out anyone who would be good at maintenance. I really don't think maintenance is a concept that even many IT based businesses comprehend as a separate area of work.
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I D Shukhov

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Re: Code-writing 'academy' aims to bring computer programming to the masses
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2012, 07:56:18 am »
Traditionally, most of the total cost of software systems has been maintenance.   This isn't something that really gets taught.  More than anything else it takes a willingness to endure a lot of frustration and being happy with little successes.

I'm currently working on a project where over 50% of the original developers quit.  I guess there will always be a need to keep systems running.

Going forward I see "maintenance" more like this:

Business gets dissatisfied with their current software, wants to punt it. They need a whiz kid for a few weeks who can migrate the data to a new system. That's "maintenance" a la 2012, maintaining the data, the program/software is expendable.

I believe this industry is very effective at driving out anyone who would be good at maintenance. I really don't think maintenance is a concept that even many IT based businesses comprehend as a separate area of work.
If the system is big and expensive, the client has to buy into doing a "technology refresh".    Government (the customer) budgets probably aren't what they used to be and they generally won't pay for that.  I have seen one case where a fairly extensive new development effort resulted in failure because of poor oversight and it had to be rewritten. 




Anything that won't sell, I don't want to invent.  Its sale is proof of utility, and utility is success. – Edison

John Masterson

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Re: Code-writing 'academy' aims to bring computer programming to the masses
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2012, 10:22:35 am »
I have learned that the problem in dealing directly with business clients (rather than working as a contract IT Department resource) is that business people are amateurs at understanding software and the associated costs.

They are hired for their expertise and skills in other areas; buying software custom development is something they have no training in or experience at doing.

They are like a 12-year-old being asked what they think a house costs. The kid says, "Oh, about $1000".

LOL. What can you do other than move on to those who have learned what a house costs to buy and MAINTAIN in the real world.

datagirl

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Re: Code-writing 'academy' aims to bring computer programming to the masses
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2012, 01:26:55 pm »
I have learned that the problem in dealing directly with business clients (rather than working as a contract IT Department resource) is that business people are amateurs at understanding software and the associated costs.

They are hired for their expertise and skills in other areas; buying software custom development is something they have no training in or experience at doing.

They are like a 12-year-old being asked what they think a house costs. The kid says, "Oh, about $1000".

LOL. What can you do other than move on to those who have learned what a house costs to buy and MAINTAIN in the real world.

OMG, JM!  Brilliantly put!

-DG

The Gorn

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Re: Code-writing 'academy' aims to bring computer programming to the masses
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2012, 01:38:12 pm »
I have learned that the problem in dealing directly with business clients (rather than working as a contract IT Department resource) is that business people are amateurs at understanding software and the associated costs.

They are hired for their expertise and skills in other areas; buying software custom development is something they have no training in or experience at doing.

They are like a 12-year-old being asked what they think a house costs. The kid says, "Oh, about $1000".

The real life implication to this reasoning is rather simple.

For such clients, you put everything important on a web server, and you rely on standard packages plus minor per instance customizations. You do NOT write custom code or deviate much off a menu for business customers.

To work with them you use standard products, and you minimize deployment effort.

99% of business customers will not pay for custom coding. At one point they did - up through the early 90s - then the availability of business applications like Quickbooks chiseled at the role of consultants.
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John Masterson

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Re: Code-writing 'academy' aims to bring computer programming to the masses
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2012, 02:15:19 pm »
I have learned that the problem in dealing directly with business clients (rather than working as a contract IT Department resource) is that business people are amateurs at understanding software and the associated costs.

They are hired for their expertise and skills in other areas; buying software custom development is something they have no training in or experience at doing.

They are like a 12-year-old being asked what they think a house costs. The kid says, "Oh, about $1000".

LOL. What can you do other than move on to those who have learned what a house costs to buy and MAINTAIN in the real world.

OMG, JM!  Brilliantly put!

-DG

Thanks, DG! :)

John Masterson

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Re: Code-writing 'academy' aims to bring computer programming to the masses
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2012, 02:17:18 pm »
I have learned that the problem in dealing directly with business clients (rather than working as a contract IT Department resource) is that business people are amateurs at understanding software and the associated costs.

They are hired for their expertise and skills in other areas; buying software custom development is something they have no training in or experience at doing.

They are like a 12-year-old being asked what they think a house costs. The kid says, "Oh, about $1000".

The real life implication to this reasoning is rather simple.

For such clients, you put everything important on a web server, and you rely on standard packages plus minor per instance customizations. You do NOT write custom code or deviate much off a menu for business customers.

To work with them you use standard products, and you minimize deployment effort.

99% of business customers will not pay for custom coding. At one point they did - up through the early 90s - then the availability of business applications like Quickbooks chiseled at the role of consultants.

Yeah, they'll only do it when there is not an off the shelf or web solution. And that means a real niche, and one where they have an expensive problem. Back in the day, there was a whole lot of custom coding needed lots of places.

The Gorn

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Re: Code-writing 'academy' aims to bring computer programming to the masses
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2012, 02:41:09 pm »
The vast majority of the programming going on today (at least in the western world) is toward startups and new SW products.

Even in web development, maybe 10 years ago you heard about a lot of "web programming" that was writing of custom web site code.

Today, almost all of that has been replaced with CMSs + customization.  Almost no one writes a web site from scratch with no existing framework.

I have no idea what the target of this silly coding academy is.
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TRexx

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Re: Code-writing 'academy' aims to bring computer programming to the masses
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2012, 03:03:08 pm »
I have no idea what the target of this silly coding academy is.

The same as all these for-profit schools.  People with money (or the ability to borrow some) who can be convinced that the road to prosperity is through them.

 

Carrie Cobol

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Re: Code-writing 'academy' aims to bring computer programming to the masses
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2012, 06:38:59 pm »
If business people wanted to learn programming, they would have years ago when COBOL was distributed for that very purpose.  And then visual basic.  And many other simplified languages since then.  Why do we keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting new results?

Origisaurus

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Re: Code-writing 'academy' aims to bring computer programming to the masses
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2012, 10:22:07 pm »
If business people wanted to learn programming, they would have years ago when COBOL was distributed for that very purpose.  And then visual basic.  And many other simplified languages since then.  Why do we keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting new results?

 It’s about simplifying the mechanics.  And how nobody really wants to know how simple it can be, nor to let their boss know how poorly they understand the process. 

In the beginning, the girls (yes, mostly women who had to have a MS in Math) computed artillery firing tables, and ENIAC made it possible to plug in (program) the starting values and read out the resulting muzzle-elevation answers.  They were called “programmers”.  But you knew that. 

Fast forward through absolute coding, desk-assembling, assembler programs, etc., to 3GL procedural languages, each stage meant to overcome the “too hard” objection. 

And now we have 4GLs, largely incomprehensible to the unwashed (folks who belittle you because it’s taking finite time), because they are “too hard”.  And they will fake UATs and afterwards whine when things go bump.


Yeah, right.

 

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