Any Techniques To Weed Out Bad Borks / Agencies?

[ilconsiglliere]

After my last debacle with the 1 man body shop bork that was running out of his house in PA I decided I needed to be much more judicious with dealing with these "agencies". You guys have any tips? I have come up with the following:

*No 1099 or corp-to-corp.
*No agencies that are not direct with the client (ie. no sub contractors).
*Any company that has ambivalent or fuzzy locations or phone numbers is a no go.
*Any company that does not reveal whom the owners of the company are is a no go (military contractors excluded due to the nature of the beast).
*Have to be extra careful with agencies in NJ, PA and NY.
*Heavy accents are bad news.

Any other suggestions on how to weed them out?

[TRexx]

Ask friends and former coworkers for a reference.

[The Gorn]

I generally agree with your points, ilconsigliere.

One question:

Any company that does not reveal whom the owners of the company are is a no go (military contractors excluded due to the nature of the beast).

Why is it that military contractors may legitimately not reveal the executives or owners? AFAIK there is no prohibition against identifying a business or a contractor as a DoD vendor. Or is there?

In any event, I see a special case for DoD contractors as a "reach". You will wind up knowing very quickly if they are legitimate or not. You can't even have clearance holders on your premises unless the premises meet certain security requirements.

In general - my opinion - you must demand to know ALL of the owners or executives of any bork/middleman business. No exceptions whatsoever. You should be able to see or look up articles of incorporation, their EIN, their business license, their state registration as an employment agency, etc.

Any bork that does not permit this is inherently dishonest and up to something criminal - case closed. The secret squirrels is absolute bullshit.

The location specific issue is interesting. Here in Ohio I have run into an abundance of crooks and scumbags. I say it doesn't matter that much and perhaps not at all. IMO you probably just run into those three states more because you are looking for gigs in your tri-state area and those are the borks that specialize in your region.

[ilconsiglliere]

The reason I was going to cut DoD agencies slack is a lot of them seem to be operating under the radar. Most are legitimate businesses and seem to be in Maryland and Virginia but for whatever reason they never want to tell me who owns them. I almost never encounter people with an accent.

As for the specific location, it seems that NJ is ground 0 of the H1B body shops. There is a big Indian population in central NJ and there are literally THOUSANDS of Indian body shops all operating under nefarious circumstances. No owner names, no addresses, vague 800 numbers for a contact number. They go through elaborate lengths to be ambiguous and vague so you are left to figure out whom you are dealing with. People call you that you cant barely understand. No thanks.

Ironically when I get calls from outside of NJ its almost always Americans on the other end unlike NJ, PA and NY. 

[DarkHumour]

One other nugget might be to check the "client side" of a recruiting agency website.  Some seem to brag about 'candiate control' and similar buzzwords.  This might give you a clue how you are presented to a company.

I still think about the borkette who called me back to scream at me over suggesting a split percentage of the bill rate rather than drop my pants and give her a number.

They've done the 'nibble' to me. The bemoaning over a single dollar.  They've played bait and switch. They've blamed (real or imaginary) subordinates for sudden rate changes on the webpage ad, even after agreeing to the higher rate.  When I complained that I thought a recruiter was arrogant and to give me a different one THAT recruiter calls back trying to "make it up to me".
I emphatically replied, "You're not getting it. I will not work with her."  I got another one later but then blew him off anyway.

I've been ignored after the usual hurry up (Hot! Urgent!) and disappear routine.  I've resorted to using a fake name to get a hold of a recruiter after they always seemed to be out of the office when I called.

So. Uh. What was the question?  How to find a good recruiter ? Their company culture rewards 'Ferengi' cut throat behavior and punishes the ethical.  So good luck with that.

DarkHumour

[Kev Biller]

The ones in PA are defintely the worst.  The Philly metro is the only area where I consistently got ripped off, lied to or not paid.  I would never deal with a Philly area consulting company again (or central/south Jersey, etc.).  My experience with NY companies is not that bad.

[Origisaurus]

My main gripe about IT contractors, writers and other freelancers: they are just simply unbusinesslike.  They are so rapt with the work and their "skillz" that they just don't bother with the boring "commercial" details.  Later they will moan about what a crooked low-life Borque was.

So, Technique #0.0 - operate your business like a business, not like a hobby.

This means that you get it all in writing.  What is "all"?  YMMV, but rates, dates, names and numbers for a start.  Payment terms, including 1099/W2 status.  Jerry Erickson of Contract Employment Weekly recommended faxing a form letter spelling out the details as you understand them, and don't start packing until a properly executed form comes back.  And no, I don't have the form letter any more.

Put on the green eyeshades.  "C2H" good or bad?  Bad usually, but might be right for you - if you can believe it.  Promises?  Must be bankable.  In writing, by a person who can be held to them.  The borque's receptionist probably can't deliver on any promises, except to have a drink with you and we'll see.  Not bankable.

And then try to confirm any stories Borque may have told you with the client people you interview.

Many disreputable firms plaster the search engines with positive news, which pushes the bad news down the list.  If you google, look at the very end of the hit list.  And ask in places like this forum.

[ilconsiglliere]

My main gripe about IT contractors, writers and other freelancers: they are just simply unbusinesslike.  They are so rapt with the work and their "skillz" that they just don't bother with the boring "commercial" details.  Later they will moan about what a crooked low-life Borque was.

So, Technique #0.0 - operate your business like a business, not like a hobby.

This means that you get it all in writing.  What is "all"?  YMMV, but rates, dates, names and numbers for a start.  Payment terms, including 1099/W2 status.  Jerry Erickson of Contract Employment Weekly recommended faxing a form letter spelling out the details as you understand them, and don't start packing until a properly executed form comes back.  And no, I don't have the form letter any more.

Put on the green eyeshades.  "C2H" good or bad?  Bad usually, but might be right for you - if you can believe it.  Promises?  Must be bankable.  In writing, by a person who can be held to them.  The borque's receptionist probably can't deliver on any promises, except to have a drink with you and we'll see.  Not bankable.

And then try to confirm any stories Borque may have told you with the client people you interview.

Many disreputable firms plaster the search engines with positive news, which pushes the bad news down the list.  If you google, look at the very end of the hit list.  And ask in places like this forum.

I agree about them being unprofessional. Truth being most IT people are unprofessional and all think of themselves as the "special snowflake" that is so different than all others that he cant possibly be replaced. Most have poor social skills and read people wrong. They dont know they are even being ripped off many times.

Whats C2H?

In my experience most of these fly by night bork shops now dont even have receptionists least of all an office at all. My last clown was literally operating out of his house in a development in PA.

[The Gorn]

Not that I am a techie myself, now.

The substance of the work is all-consuming. Repeat, keeping up today and staying competitive and competing is so difficult and all absorbing of your concentration that nothing is left for anything else, like staying aware (much less in front of) business issues.

I think this fact alone is the chief reason why most IT people today vastly prefer to stay in FTE roles. Outside that bubble it's the absolute law of the jungle.

A human being simply does not have enough brain cells to cope with being challenged and chiseled constantly on the business front - normally businesses have roles set aside for contract negotiation, but the contractor has to DIY - and also compete technically at the exorbitantly high "average expectations" level expected by industry from IT workers.

In this industry you are solidly, completely on the defense for yourself, your livelihood, and your role on whatever project you are working on, at all times.

I don't think RealConsulting © is a viable business format today.

Perhaps 1 out of 10,000 individuals from the population can muster all of the skills and strengths necessary to rise above subsistence.

[TRexx]

Whats C2H?

Contract To Hire -- An arrangement where you work as a contractor for a specific period, usually 3 or 6 months with the understanding that at the end, if the client likes you, they will offer to hire you as an FTE. In some cases the FTE compensation is negotiated before the C2H phase, but usually there is some vague promise that the pay will be "fair". 

I don't know if C2H deals are inherently good or bad. They are certainly good for the client and the broker. C2H implies that the client wants an FTE for that position but doesn't want to hire an unknown.  If at the end of the trial period you are offered an FTE job and decline, it is likely you will be replaced with anther body.  Some clients are deeply offended if you decline their offer. Others really want an FTE and if you're not interested they will look for someone else.   

Some clients add a C2H (often called "Right To Hire") clause in every contract whether they intend to hire an FTE or not. It leaves them the option of hiring someone they really like. 

Back before Divestiture, AT&T had what they called "Intent To Hire" contracts. This was when a lot of contractors were actually salaried employees of body shops.  The assumption was that after the trial period you would become their employee and if you declined their generous offer, the body shop was obliged to fire you.

[ilconsiglliere]

Whats C2H?

Contract To Hire -- An arrangement where you work as a contractor for a specific period, usually 3 or 6 months with the understanding that at the end, if the client likes you, they will offer to hire you as an FTE. In some cases the FTE compensation is negotiated before the C2H phase, but usually there is some vague promise that the pay will be "fair". 

I don't know if C2H deals are inherently good or bad. They are certainly good for the client and the broker. C2H implies that the client wants an FTE for that position but doesn't want to hire an unknown.  If at the end of the trial period you are offered an FTE job and decline, it is likely you will be replaced with anther body.  Some clients are deeply offended if you decline their offer. Others really want an FTE and if you're not interested they will look for someone else.   

Some clients add a C2H (often called "Right To Hire") clause in every contract whether they intend to hire an FTE or not. It leaves them the option of hiring someone they really like. 

Back before Divestiture, AT&T had what they called "Intent To Hire" contracts. This was when a lot of contractors were actually salaried employees of body shops.  The assumption was that after the trial period you would become their employee and if you declined their generous offer, the body shop was obliged to fire you.

Ah, got it what C2H means. I am quite familiar with it.

In my experience today the perm offer never materializes. Its the typical carrot before the donkey thing today. They keep dangling it and hoping that you keep jumping through hoops. I spent years in one gig where they kept promising me over and over they were going to do it. Guess what, they never did it... so I left.

[choppedwood]

A human being simply does not have enough brain cells to cope with being challenged and chiseled constantly on the business front - normally businesses have roles set aside for contract negotiation, but the contractor has to DIY - and also compete technically at the exorbitantly high "average expectations" level expected by industry from IT workers.

It isn't, really, any easier for any small business.  Especially a new one.  I don't want to detract from your point, nor do I have any great advice for anyone, but, it's all hard.  I know a ton about the last business I was involved with, and how hard is it do AP, for example.  But if I had to start a small version of it (and high school drop outs do it), where I was involved in sales, collections, delivery, hiring, signing a lease, loss prevention, government regulation, and so on, it could be a nightmare, especially if you had some bad luck on your first few customers.  But, that is what comes with the territory.

The question that I think is relevant is, is it worth it, above and beyond going to work for someone else.  Right now, I don't have an answer for myself, much less anyone else.

Yikes, needed some editing.

[benali72]

>>>>> Any Techniques To Weed Out Bad Borks / Agencies?

I have a very successful one. Don't talk to any Borks / Agencies. If possible, get work directly on your own and avoid the whole mess.

[DarkHumour]

>>>>> Any Techniques To Weed Out Bad Borks / Agencies?

I have a very successful one. Don't talk to any Borks / Agencies. If possible, get work directly on your own and avoid the whole mess.

" A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."

[datagirl]

>>>>> Any Techniques To Weed Out Bad Borks / Agencies?

I have a very successful one. Don't talk to any Borks / Agencies. If possible, get work directly on your own and avoid the whole mess.

" A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."

LOL!  DH, that's the perfect cultural reference for an IT board!