What is the goal of this board? (topic split)

[Dennis Nedry]

I think you need to ask what is the goal?  To attract a lot of traffic like Slashdot or JOS?  

For me,  I look to the board for professional advice, because over the years, I've liked the advice that has been given here. (btw, thanks)  And I've done my best to return the favor if I have something unique to say.  However, my professional questions are not all that frequent.  This chat board is more like a limited group that have chatted online for years.  Everyone started out kind of old, and is getting older.

The Politics and Religion section is a place to post and keep the board active in between professional discussions.    As is the Coffee Talk, or whatever it is called now.

How many times can you discuss 1099 vs. C2C, or contracts, ,etc.  I think removing the general discussion boards will be the end of this whole discussion.    It will just be the occassional newbie dropping by to ask about how to incorporate, and then the standard answer.  The board may disappear.

[John Masterson]

I think you need to ask what is the goal? To attract a lot of traffic like Slashdot or JOS?  
 
  For me, I look to the board for professional advice, because over the years, I've liked the advice that has been given here. (btw, thanks) And I've   done my best to return the favor if I have something unique to say. However, my professional questions are not all that frequent. This chat board is more   like a limited group that have chatted online for years. Everyone started out kind of old, and is getting older.  
 
  The Politics and Religion section is a place to post and keep the board active in between professional discussions. As is the Coffee Talk, or whatever it is   called now.  
 
  How many times can you discuss 1099 vs. C2C, or contracts, ,etc. I think removing the general discussion boards will be the end of this whole discussion. It   will just be the occassional newbie dropping by to ask about how to incorporate, and then the standard answer. The board may disappear.

I think that is right.

[Dennis Nedry]

The older I get , the smarter my Dad  (77 now) gets.  I ask my Dad's advice now more than ever, and he is always spot on.

I believe older people are simply wiser than younger people, period.  In the IT context, they may not know the latest feature of the latest software, but ask them about the motives behind human behavior (that boss, that recruiter, that co-worker), that's the real important stuff.

[John Masterson]

You are right...the important stuff is the human motives, power relationships, games clients play, and how to get along with all types of people different from yourself.

The technical stuff you can learn from the Internet and books. It's so much easier now...both the tools, and the tutorials available.

[The Gorn]

The goal is to not have a depressing, offputting board.

Dennis, I have to say that your posts, in addition to a few others here who are actually doing things and not just bitching, help motivate me to not shitcan this whole deal.

In the last few days I got a PM from someone who used to hang out here. Some snips (this was unsolicited input):

• "...there is a lot of rancor and negativity. It's understandable, clearly many people here are bitter about their situations and maybe it helps   to feel less alone by engaging in a bitchfest. I often feel bitter about my own situation, but not nearly to the extent expressed on this board. It makes me   feel worse coming here"
• "ITWhore's attacks were way out of line. The lack of respect on the board is disgusting. Who would want to post, with that   atmosphere?"
• "I think if you want to keep OpenIT going, you should be more strict about policing. Say that excessively disrespectful, hostile, or bigoted posts   will be pulled (I do believe it's possible to discuss the H1-B visa situation without resorting to bigotry). Dickheads People can rant all they want about unfair censorship, but all the hostility is going to kill the board   more than any censorship"
• "I guess (one member) left because he was getting into too heated arguments, I know (another member) left way back when because he found the board   too depressing. ITW and WE both left in a pique, or were banished? but who cares "
• "I wish I knew how to get more active contractors to post here. But given the current content, I don't see a lot to draw them in. Maybe the   board is just doomed to die. I also don't know of any boards for contractors, so maybe contractors generally just don't want to socialize via message   boards."

Back to my opinions: the main problem I see with OpenIT is the lack of a context, a subject.

With Realrates it was Janet Ruhl's mantra about contracting. With Joel Spolsky it's about Joel blog readers.

Here are the current "raison d'etres" that seem to be in effect for OpenIT:

• "we left Janet Ruhl's board. No one can ever tell us how to act!"
• "it's almost impossible to find a good job in IT, let's gripe about it and blame others."
• "My career is mostly behind me,  I am only interested in political and off topic crap and I don't even understand most technology in widespread   use today. There is one main thing or cause that I really hate and it's the main reason I post. "

I probably step on several toes with this assessment. I know it's rude but it seems to fit.

In general, the people who seem to be all about any of these three points are the least interesting to read and seem to contribute the least useful information and insight. The people on this board who don't subscribe to any of these attitudes tend to be the most interesting to read and to engage in discussions with.

Dennis Nedry     I think removing the general discussion boards will be the end of this whole discussion. It will just be the occassional newbie dropping by to ask about how   to incorporate, and then the standard answer. The board may disappear.

Realrates basically did this and that is exactly what happened. Joel S. enforced registration for posting and apparently cleaned up the usual entertaining screeds (like the Brice Richards posts, etc) - in an apparent effort to make JoS "more professional" yb eliminating banter and opinions - and the traffic on the main forum is now negligible.

If I ever removed anything it would just be the political section. And it seems to be at slow simmer right now. I intend to police it vehemently from now on.

[DG9]

Tip of the hat to Dennis, his posts are a major part of what keeps me reading this board!

[The Gorn]

[Dennis Nedry]

Thanks for any kind words.  Now I think there is a very useful "master mind" group assembled here.  And I think there is some undefinable "magic" that keeps a board alive and active.  If you start to tamper with that "magic" the board will disappear.   I think it's sort of an entity that has to have a life of it's own, and the moderation should be only to corral egregious behavior.  

Truth be told, I never thought of this board or the postings in general as negative.  I prefer not to engage in politics because most people are fixed in their opinions, and nothing can ever be said to change that, so what is the point?  It is interesting in election seasons though, to talk about individual candidates.

In my personal self centered opinion, I'd like to see the collective minds focus on topics more useful.   And my favorite topic is this (and it is my suggestion for a theme):

How can we make money as entrepreneurs so we don't have to spend our lives in a cubicle?

Not to drive a better car, have more flash, lord it over people.  In order to free oneself.

I will pre-suppose that nobody has childhood dreams about spending our lives in a tan colored, cloth lined box, sitting staring at a screen.  Or at the very least we would prefer sitting in our own cloth lined boxes somewhere.  And nobody dreams about becoming a corporate manager and filling out forms.  Answering the question immediately takes you out of the negative, and brings you into positive, the creative.   And I personally don't think it matters whether being an entrepreneur means technology, or selling bottled water at the beach.   The key is does it produce enough income to liberate from the matrix?

A lot of this centers on breaking out of our current belief systems.  That is another good topic for discussion.  In fact, to achieve success as an entrepreneur,  it starts with changing our belief systems - completely.     Once you change your belief system, you must get to the ones and zeros of making money.   You must get customers to give you cash, and then you must have a successful framwork within which to store, grow, and keep that cash.  Again, the former requires the proper belief system.  Etc.

Just a thought.....

[DG9]

There are so many issues we all have in common.  It is all about freedom.  One of the biggest struggles is breaking out of the working/middle class mindset and truly believing that we deserve to make it and be free.  After that, it is vision and mechanics....

[David Randolph]

While Dennis Nedry's point about not having to live in a cubicle is important, it is still a focus on ourselves. In my experience, that focus is a problem. When an organization's purpose is focussed on its members and meeting their needs, the organization slowly fades away. In order to keep viable, any organization needs to have some outside focus, some reason to reach out into the community.

 

I would suggest a slight modification of Dennis's theme:

 

How can we help other people make money as entrepreneurs so they don't have to spend their lives in a cubicle?

 

Thus, we offer advice and experience to people who are stuck in living in a bad situation to try to help them move from being a wage slave to being free. At the same time, we can not force others to take our experience and advice. I submit that by having a purpose to help others make it as entrepreneurs, we can have a overriding reason to police posts - our goal will be to make this board inviting to hopeful entrepreneurs. Besides, we can still post our own learnings about what it takes to become free as that will help the new person.

[datagirl]

David Randolph said: "  

How can we help other people make money as entrepreneurs so they don't have to spend their lives in a cubicle?

 

Thus, we offer advice and experience to people who are stuck in living in a bad situation to try to help them move from being a wage slave to being free. At the same time, we can not force others to take our experience and advice. I submit that by having a purpose to help others make it as entrepreneurs, we can have a overriding reason to police posts - our goal will be to make this board inviting to hopeful entrepreneurs. Besides, we can still post our own learnings about what it takes to become free as that will help the new person. "

I like this idea.  I think is would be helpful to have a section that is a "welcome mat" area where we have the sticky post of "the rules", "our mission", "faq's", and new member intros.  This would be similar to other (non-tech) forums I frequent that have a feeling that the members are there to assist each other.

Just my two cents.

Regards,
-DG

[Aussie]

..... this board reminds me of the after-work sessions down the pub we used to have before I got married.  Oh, sure, they can get a bit fractious at times too, but that's usually a lotta fun anyway s'long as no-one gets glassed.

[The Gorn]

David, your point is well taken.

I did the following: Today I created a new group, universally visible, called Rookie's Corner: New Contractor and Consultant's Help. I seeded it with some existing posts that fit that title, extending back about a year. The intention is that it's a safe place to ask questions that may seem obvious to others, and it is also a way to point out that we have a huge base of useful experience in this forum in the form of many resident gurus.

Your comments about helping other people make money as entrepreneurs are very good. On the Realrates BBS Janet created a section with exactly that charter: Moving Towards Entrepreneurship. Actually, most of that type of material is embedded in the threads in the contracting section here.

I always thought that section on RR was a bit contrived - it felt like JR was preaching with it - and was a way to slow a sinking ship. Most of the threads there are meat and potatoes "IT business" topics.

[Origisaurus]

I did the following: Today I created a new group, universally visible, called Rookie's Corner: New Contractor and Consultant's Help. I seeded it with some   existing posts that fit that title, extending back about a year. The intention is that it's a safe place to ask questions that may seem obvious to   others, and it is also a way to point out that we have a huge base of useful experience in this forum in the form of many resident gurus.

Great idea, GB!  Or as Crocodile Dundee would say,"Better'n average".