is this board in decline?

[benali72]

Depending on my work schedule, I usually drop by this forum every week or two. In the last 6 months or year, it seems likely there are no longer many new posts in this time interval. Do we have fewer posters? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like we're in decline. (This esp strikes me as odd since we pop up very high in google searches for "computer consultants forum" and the like). Do we have usage stats on number of posts per interval or number of posters online per interval?

Are we declining? Is there any way to get more people involved? What does everyone think?

[The Gorn]

No, you're correct. Participation has dropped like a rock since around Thanksgiving til now. The holidays seem to be when the knee of the curve hit and the amount of posting plummeted.

>> Are we declining?

Yes - we have a very loyal crowd here, but measured by the rate of attrition - people drifting off without returning, and few new people coming in - it's dropped off.

>> Is there any way to get more people involved?

Not on this board. I think we have three main issues here:

Personality of the board - it is pretty inaccessible to new comers.  This is an age and experience thing as well as the demeanor of the board, which is pretty curmudgeonly. We aren't real welcoming to new people: IE, you have a guy here who greeted someone I invited as "hello, n00b!"

Yuku is an issue - my own attitude is that you don't find serious professional groups at "social networking" sites like MySpace, and Yuku is trying to position itself as a social networking site. New members have to register with Yuku even if they just want this one board. I think that's a turnoff to a lot of people. IE: I don't want to have to sign on to something that is big and comprehensive just to get content from one small part of it. I also think that some of the sh!t that Yuku stuffs onto this site, like the flash movie ads, keep a few of our less technically inclined older members who don't understand how to block this garbage, from checking in. Yuku just makes boards on it look non serious by association. My opinion.

IT consulting is dead/dying/a tiny niche anyway.

Plus in regard to attrition, I think some folks have been here who just demand certain things from this community that I'm not going to support or allow or which pisses off others. In those instances I have usually had someone flame me personally and then leave in a big huff. One example, the asshole Webmaster Extraordinaire. Another example: a few months ago a new person started posting here who acted like the world's expert on consulting and started criticizing everyone in sight. I PMed him to stop it ASAP or leave... so he left. (That guy was at least civil about it.)

>> What does everyone think?

I say, let it die, and start fresh elsewhere (not on the stupid f*cking Yuku, either.) It's up to people to use it. If people dont' use it it will die.

I will protect people's private discussions here and I don't identify people in real life unless invited to, but I have taken enough personal pot shots over how I run this board to not care one way or the other at this point.

[DG9]

GB, have you found any boards more focused on entrepreneurship? Especially for those coming from an IT background.  I have noticed that as people around here become more successful they tend to drift off, probably a natural evolution...

[Origisaurus]

My take was that traffic dropped off when GB closed the political section.  Volume dropped, quality rose.

I hadn't thought of the seasonal aspect, and that makes sense, too.

Also, let's face it, there are fewer and fewer Americans entering and continuing in IT as a career.  Instead of seeking professional growth and hanging out with like-minded people, many of those in the field are looking for the exit.  And we don't draw the curry-flavored "participants" the way RR did.

[Fortune Green]

And we don't draw the curry-flavored "participants" the way RR did.

It's comments like this that put off new participants.

For those of us that have invested a significant number of years in the IT world, we have seen the overwhelming influx of cheap resources that have effectively taken our bread and butter away from us.  This has undoubtedley left a sour taste in our mouths.  However, this is the reality of the situation.  Unless we deal with it for what it is, we'll become extinct very quickly.

Any potential board participants with just a few years of experience will not know anything different.  They'll have grown up not knowing an environment without cheap rates and foreign resources.

Once they read a few sample postings on this board, they'll realise pretty quickly that the tone of the posters here does not match their vision of reality, and they'll just move on.

Just my two cents.....

[The Gorn]

I believe that there is a taint of sourness on this board and it doesn't (just?) come from me.  

And we don't draw the curry-flavored "participants" the way RR did.

It's comments like this that put off new participants.

I'm really glad that someone else said that, too. That goes along with things like diatribes on how everything is a race to the bottom and the commentary on how vast areas of life are mongrelized with people who drag down standards.

You read some geezers on this board and you may think that they won a Nobel Peace Prize in their lives, their view on everything is so haughty. Nope, just living out their retirement.

I find that the people in any walk of life who have things going on and who are making money and making a difference somewhere don't really care to engage in politically and emotionally charged debates.

The opposite is true, too. I don't listen to a beggar tell me how to earn a living because by definition he is a loser.

Someone spewing contempt for specific ethnic or ideological backgrounds is a loser. I don't mean someone who is actually earning a living letting something slip out of general frustration.

I mean those who make a good portion of their commentary an "us and them" narrative. They're losers. And there may be a few around here. Oh, did I say that.

I said this because I'm frustrated. I have changed my tone, or at least tried too. Not everyone is into self improvement, though.

[Richardk]

Many of us remember better times so I understand where the negative vibe comes from. The new kids on the block just don't get it. To them this is a step up from a Mc or Wal job, so what are we complaining about, but they're not the same jobs. A lot of it is low-level grunt work.

The race to the bottom is everywhere. A doctor that I know complains about many of the same things we do here. He says that somehow because he works the walk-in clinic in addition to his other responsibilities, the patients often regard him as 'less of a doctor' and want to see a specialist for 'everyday issues'. This is very frustrating for him. Very much like us having a client wonder if we're able to perform some trivial task or wanting to pay us peanuts because they read on the web 'how easy it is'.

I suspect today's issues are more about whether to ask a clients employee for a date rather than some technical or business issue and they have specific sites for all that now anyway if they really need to ask.

[The Gorn]

I think people's expectations today for careers and lifestyles are in many ways far lower than we ever remembered it. Expectations for comfort, stimulation and instant gratification are high today, and nobody expects to pay any dues. But the expectation today is also that nothing lasts. So kids today have a planning horizon of months at most, perhaps. They aren't looking for a career for the next 20 years, they're just trying to meet rent this month and maybe next month.

So how do you communicate that their standards should be higher and that they should think longer term?

I think (saying once again) that Joel Spolsky reaches the newbies by flattering them through association. Basically, he's gained followers by kissing their asses.

So I suspect that the answer is, you can't reach younger developers or IT pros. They think differently than we do. The cultural divide is probably around age 30 - 35 now.

I won't kiss anyone's ass to come here or hang around. I think many aspects of today's work culture and IT culture are stupid and vacuous, but they are articles of faith.  And it's probably as difficult for younger developers to respect their elders as it is for us to find common ground with someone who is on the trend du jour.

Example: the idea today is you don't think through and analyze a problem by yourself, you involve others through message forums or social networking sites. I don't feel like creating an online environment where we cheerily say to such people that this is perfectly alright and equally valid.

You made a good point about specialization. Everyone today associates generalists with mediocrity.

[Richardk]

They aren't looking for a career for the next 20 years, they're just trying to meet rent this month and maybe next month.  
 
  So how do you communicate that their standards should be higher and that they should think longer term?

It's not easy since like you said, their view is only a few months out. The high school kids to twenty somethings that I see have career goals that we considered to be mere stepping stones in our careers. College bound might think differently but I bet they're not in computer science.

Some even realize that their jobs probably won't exist two years from now but at the same time they're living like something will fill that gap. Something we all do since we expect to find gainful employment in short order. They just haven't been burned yet.

You made a good point about specialization. Everyone today associates generalists with mediocrity.

Yes, very sad. The Doc figured that out too and just moved to AZ. Better weather and being older, maybe the retiring community will relate better to him.

[Aussie]

"Expectations for comfort, stimulation and instant gratification are high today, and nobody expects to pay any dues."
Time was when that was the text-book definition of 'spoilt brat'.

"So how do you communicate that their standards should be higher and that they should think longer term?"
Getting the politicians off the 24-hour-poll-cycle, and the PHB's off the 6 month slash-and-burn-your-way-to-a-bonus cycle would be a start.

"So I suspect that the answer is, you can't reach younger developers or IT pros. They think differently than we do. The cultural divide is probably around age 30 - 35 now."
Again, in my day, it was an accepted wisdom that young folk wouldn't heed the wrinklies.

There is nothing more pathetic than old dudes trying to be cool or hip or whatever enough to make young dudes listen to their years of experience.  The smart few will, the rest should be allowed to work out their own salvation or damnation.

Or am I wrong ?

[I D Shukhov]

If it is, then it's not meeting the member's needs.  Maybe we should have a book discussion group.  Something non-technical, maybe a novel.

[Aussie]

If it is, then it's not meeting the member's needs. Maybe we should have a book discussion group. Something non-technical, maybe a novel. "

I've heard good things about "The Little Engine That Could".......

[I D Shukhov]

It would counter the negativity.

[benali72]

I am sad to see this board fade away.  It's been a nice break from serious work at the keyboard at times, and also I learned some good and useful things from the knowledgable people here.

Goddard wrote --
>>>>> but I have taken enough personal pot shots over how I run this board to not care one way or the other at this point.

I want to thank Goddard for his effort in keeping the board going all this time.  It's not an easy job, and I have the feeling it's the kind of job where you hardly ever hear anyone say "thanks" -- but I bet you sure do hear from anyone who wants to complain or who is just an out-of-line troll idiot.  So thank you, Goddard, for your time and your effort.

If anyone has any ideas on how to revitalize this board, please offer them.  Rather than just say "that's the way it goes," I'd like to explore if there are any actions we could take that would restore the board activity and make it more useful again. I think it would be worth discussing. Thanks.

[benali72]

cssf goodnight